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Lessons from Paris

GunnyGene

GunnyGene

Racist old man
BANNED
I'm starting to hear a lot of talking heads on the tv news channels in the wake of the Paris thing, edging up on the Freedom vs. Safety argument and suggesting that people may have to surrender some of their freedoms to secure their safety. Even heard this on Fox news this morning.

It seems obvious that the US Govt and foreign govt's are not capable of ensuring the total safety of their citizens (which many are demanding), so in my view that responsibility devolves to the individual to ensure their own safety. Not a new thought for y'all, I know. However I think we should take this kind of talk as a warning to watch for state and federal liberal politicians to pursue their anti self defense agenda's.

More gun control bills, increased cost to make Govt bigger to "protect us", etc. are going to be spewing forth from DC and at the state level I think, when exactly the opposite should be done. Granted, we peons don't have much in the way of predicting such attacks via formal intel, etc. but the Feds haven't been real great at it either. What we could do is provide a deterrent & lower the body count when some Islamic Butcher, walks in with the intent of slaughtering everyone in sight. If everyone in that Paris office had been packing, I think things would have turned out considerably different.

People in the US need to start taking care of themselves, instead of relying on Nanny. Nanny is out to lunch.
 
Many of our freedoms are our safety...though many do not see it that way. We've already given up enough for the sake of safety.

No one has yet been able to explain to me how removing the one thing that equalizes force from a bigger stronger attacker makes me safer.

People have been conditioned to react to crisis rather than taking time to think things through. that's why we always see a rash of new gun laws after a incident like this. The people have their stuff all typed up and are just waiting for stuff like this so that can ram it down or throats before the initial shock of the crisis wears off. Most people don't want to believe this but step back and watch it play out time and time again.

People want to feel safe regardless of whether they are or not. As long as the perception is there, they are OK with whatever measures are needed to continue that illusion. Those of us that see the big picture understand that with freedom comes inherent risk, not everyone is OK with that and refuse to accept that you cannot have both. Combine that with an ever growing population of people that have recently immigrated from places that were so oppressive even the most restrictive laws we have to offer seem like total freedom and you can see why we are headed where we are.

While incidents like what just happened in Paris should make people want to be able to defend themselves, too many take whatever laws are proposed as long as it doesn't affect "them" in any major way.

I really don't know any more if we can regain control of this ship.
 
My replies in red just because I didn't want to miss anything

GunnyGene said:
It seems obvious that the US Govt and foreign govt's are not capable of ensuring the total safety of their citizens (which many are demanding),

This.

10000 times this.

so in my view that responsibility devolves to the individual to ensure their own safety.

Again YES.

That is precisely one of the reasons why we are granted under the Bill of Rights to be able to arm ourselves.

The world is a very big place and there are a lot of nasty things and people out there that would like nothing else than to kill you.

Not a new thought for y'all, I know. However I think we should take this kind of talk as a warning to watch for state and federal liberal politicians to pursue their anti self defense agenda's.

You're probably right Gunny.

One thing that I have been sort of noticing is that many people (especially elected officials) talking about rights and things.

Well, my confusion with that is that France and the U.S. do not have the same "rights".

But the context they are talking in, was like this happened in Paris IDAHO or something.

More gun control bills, increased cost to make Govt bigger to "protect us", etc. are going to be spewing forth from DC and at the state level I think, when exactly the opposite should be done. Granted, we peons don't have much in the way of predicting such attacks via formal intel, etc. but the Feds haven't been real great at it either.

You can say that again. But I don't think all of that meta data gathering is for that reason anyway.

What we could do is provide a deterrent & lower the body count when some Islamic Butcher, walks in with the intent of slaughtering everyone in sight. If everyone in that Paris office had been packing, I think things would have turned out considerably different.

I will stop short and say that is questionable.

Mostly because there are those that wouldn't pull the trigger on someone else even if they had a gun. There are those that would simply go into shock and the fetal position under their desk or in a corner.

Those are the folks that are commonly referred to as "sheep".

And again when taking into consideration that they also did kill some armed police, does not necessarily mean that the terrorists would've absolutely been killed, but I don't think that's what you're saying.

Personally, I prefer to feel like I can protect myself regardless of where I am, but I think we both can agree that may not be the case, but I at least like to feel that I can.

On a somewhat related note, I also heard the first police responders were not armed and pulled back to wait for different police that were armed.

People in the US need to start taking care of themselves, instead of relying on Nanny. Nanny is out to lunch.

To this, I say BRAVO

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John, re: "What we could do is provide a deterrent & lower the body count when some Islamic Butcher, walks in with the intent of slaughtering everyone in sight. If everyone in that Paris office had been packing, I think things would have turned out considerably different.

I will stop short and say that is questionable.

Mostly because there are those that wouldn't pull the trigger on someone else even if they had a gun. There are those that would simply go into shock and the fetal position under their desk or in a corner."

No doubt true. But that risk is lower than the risk associated with nobody being armed and ready to rock. There is risk in everything, all the time. All we can do is try to minimize it. That's all I am suggesting :) . Suppose, instead of less than 10% of the adult US population being armed at all times, 70% were armed and capable. Would that not be preferable in terms of deterrence and protection on an individual level? I submit it would be.

Also, I think those unarmed Gendarmes in Paris who responded to this incident, would have welcomed a few armed citizens. Especially the woman officer who was shot in the head, after being wounded and pleading for her life.
 
I saw this and am pasting it from another forum. It is a photoshopped picture I saw on another forum that said the image was originally posted on ohioans for concealed carry, so I wanted to let it be known that is the footnote for this set of pictures.

It shows exactly what you are trying to say Gunny. While I agree that things could be different if laws were different, but not everyone will act, but I do agree. With proper training and usage, could have been beneficial.

Instead of seeing a guy holding a camera recording it, there could've been a guy actually being able to help defend themselves (and others).

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And there have been a lot of actual photographs that have been posted that does very little to encourage anyone that the police force is anything other than symbolic.

10914876_1520664914874121_548060126773403302_o.jpg


The guy looking at the shapes in the clouds doesn't even have a mag in the gun
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And these videos should need no captions or explanations at all.

 
John A. said:
I saw this and am pasting it from another forum. It is a photoshopped picture I saw on another forum that said the image was originally posted on ohioans for concealed carry, so I wanted to let it be known that is the footnote for this set of pictures.

It shows exactly what you are trying to say Gunny. While I agree that things could be different if laws were different, but not everyone will act, but I do agree. With proper training and usage, could have been beneficial.
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What this all tells me is that way too many people are far more interested in getting "likes" on facebook, utube, etc. , than actually being useful. :rolleyes:

People are generally idiots (present company excluded). :)
 
Not to go OT too much here, but what are the wood-stocked rifles they are holding? :confused:

I often wonder how I would react in such a situation--I like to think I wouldn't panic--nerves of steel, brain of mush! ;) I wonder how sniping a "badguy" would play out with the "goodguys"--wonder what kind of "punishment" they would think of for my "good dead". Hmmmm... I guess better to snipe and remain anonymous... :cool:
 
They are Ruger AC556's, which is the full auto version of the Mini14's like the wood stock version of the gun the A team were associated with.

Too bad Ruger no longer makes parts for them.
 
I thought they looked like Mini-14s! :) Local seller has an AC556 folder for sale--I think he is looking for $8000! :eek:

PS: HERE it is! And a bargain at $6000!
 
I'll be honest, these have been going ~$7500-$8000 lately.
 
Three terrorists dead, one on the run (escaped in the confusion at the Jewish supermarket), four hostages dead. Pretty wild videos coming out on the assault at the supermarket.
 
An excellent article that should be read by everyone, including those of us who carry or who plan to carry:

An excerpt: http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-new-tactical-reality.html

4) YOU CAN'T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ON WHAT THE SHOOTER(S) WILL LOOK LIKE
Nationality, age, sex, size...whatever...no assumptions whatsoever even make sense. We've already had a situation where a concealed carry holder was killer because he failed to register, or ignored, the woman behind him. Hey, Hayat Boumeddiene is cute as a button; so is a pigmy rattlesnake.


) THE SHOOTER(S) MAY BE WELL TRAINED
Maybe better trained than you. Which means they will respond quickly and ruthlessly. Note the Stratfor analysis that the Paris shooters seemed to be trained in small in small unit action. Note the seamless execution of the LEO on the ground begging for his life. CCW holders often have a sense that in any situation, they'll be better trained than their aggressors...such an assumption in a terrorists attack is suicide.
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Also here's the article mentioned in the above link: http://blog.suarezinternational.com...f-the-charlie-hebdo-murders.html#.VLEmtcm1njN
 
8) THE LIKELIHOOD OF YOU BEING CAUGHT UP IN A TERRORIST ATTACK IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS YOU BEING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING
And yet, people die from lightning strikes every year.
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But the likelihood is going up with more and more jihadists arriving and numbers unknown...
 
OhioArcher said:
But the likelihood is going up with more and more jihadists arriving and numbers unknown...
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True. But it pisses me off. Seems like the entire planet has become one giant combat zone, and I don't like living in a combat zone. Been there, done that, and it really sucks. :mad:
 
Yes, it seems that way. But most of us will live out our lives without actually seeing anything like this. Unfortunately, the TV is the worse offender as it shows these things nonstop, 24/7. I would suspect that where there are large numbers of Muslims living in these so-called "no go zones" there may be these types of occurrences. I'm not sure they are going to take the time to seek out small towns and cities where there are no high profile "targets". Granted, if you have a "Mohammed is a (fill in the blank)" bumper sticker you may want to have eyes in the back of your head.

But for the rest of us it may be as foreign as the Moon. Still need to be vigilant when out and about, especially in large, crowded environments, but not to the extreme.
 
OhioArcher said:
Yes, it seems that way. But most of us will live out our lives without actually seeing anything like this. Unfortunately, the TV is the worse offender as it shows these things nonstop, 24/7. I would suspect that where there are large numbers of Muslims living in these so-called "no go zones" there may be these types of occurrences. I'm not sure they are going to take the time to seek out small towns and cities where there are no high profile "targets". Granted, if you have a "Mohammed is a (fill in the blank)" bumper sticker you may want to have eyes in the back of your head.

But for the rest of us it may be as foreign as the Moon. Still need to be vigilant when out and about, especially in large, crowded environments, but not to the extreme.
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Also true. However when assessing risk, besides figuring the odds of an event happening or not happening, the potential gain or loss is also part of the equation. Which is why people play the lottery, even tho their odds of winning are practically nill. :)
 
GunnyGene said:
Also true. However when assessing risk, besides figuring the odds of an event happening or not happening, the potential gain or loss is also part of the equation. Which is why people play the lottery, even tho their odds of winning are practically nill. :)
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I resemble that remark...;)
 
Good grief.

I just saw a fairly close up video of the supermarket "raid".

I use that term very loosely.

I don't want anyone to take this wrong, because I'm sure the police hearts were in the right place simply by being there, but I can only say the entry was one big cluster _ _ _ _ from the word go.

1. There was only 1 cop who entered. I really don't see how he wasn't killed by friendly fire. It's a miracle that he's alive.

2. No one followed behind in stack.

3. Why on earth were handguns the entry teams primary weapon? At best, they should've been secondary, but the cops could've easily been out powered by rifles if the bad guys had been shooting from cover/barricades could've easily been picked off rather quickly and easily and even somewhat safely.

4. The 2 bad guys that made it to the door, either of them could've taken out the ENTIRE entry team had they been rigged to blow.

5. My thought is there was a bunch of guys told to go with no prior team training AT ALL!


direct link since the embedding seems to be turned off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zKCvq1ltRIM
 
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