Guns to Avoid!

[CaddmannQ]

The Raven and Jennings were mentioned in another thread, but I thought this deserved its own topic.

So this one is for the real junk. Cheapos, potmetal knockoffs, Saturday Night Specials: the dangerous firearms you want to smash, melt down, or otherwise avoid.

Names, pics, and any other data are all welcome.

 

[CaddmannQ]

By the way I started this because Scoop mentioned, in the old ammo thread, that as an instructor they do not allow these guns on the Range.

In the time I've been a range member have never been asked to show them what guns I am going to shoot in advance. They check ammo on newbies, because they don't want tracers or special effects rounds starting fires, but after that there's no official examination.

Maybe someone will notice when they come around to see if your guns are flaged and safed before a cold range.

Perhaps it's not much of a problem? Maybe most of these have all been rounded up and destroyed. No idea here.

 

[John A.]

Lorcin are often categorized as junk by most people.

FWIW, I owned an L9 (Lorcin 9mm) and it never failed, though by all intents and purposes, it was not a very good handgun. Potmetal body, fixed sights in front and rear, etc.

I believe that Raven Arms are essentially the same gun.

 

[Water Monkey]

Remington R51

So bad they recalled them all back. 2 years later they released it again, and it's still a mess.

 

[dieselmudder]

Hi-point has a bad name. I had a Hi-Point .45 back before I knew anything about guns. It shot every time I squeezed the trigger. They're dirt cheap though.

 

[dieselmudder]

I do have a Yimeng 12Ga. Imported by Intrac, Knox TN. pump. Wouldn't cycle after firing. No matter the load. I gutted the internals and just use it for a costume prop now.

 

[Scoop]

By the way I started this because Scoop mentioned, in the old ammo thread, that as an instructor they do not allow these guns on the Range.

In the time I've been a range member have never been asked to show them what guns I am going to shoot in advance.

Cadd, thanx for starting this thread up.

The Sheriff's Office instructors teach 2 classes a month. We teach the book and video portion in the morning and shoot the qualification course in the afternoon.

Upon receipt of a registration request a letter is sent to the student about location, procedures, appropriate clothing and safety gear, etc. That letter includes this paragraph:

4. The following weapons WILL NOT be allowed on the RANGE due to liability issues: Raven Arms, Phoenix Arms, RG Arms, Jennings, Bryco, or any single action revolver.​

Note that the restriction is not for the range, but for the range the while in our class.

Although it is not [yet] written in our letter, I will not allow the use of the Blackhawk Serpa holster. That holster has a release mechanism that requires the trigger finger finger to push a button towards the leg while drawing. It is possible that the finger will fall into the trigger guard when it clears the holster.

See the L-shaped button? That caused the problem.

Go to about :50 to see the slowmotion of the ND with a holster using a similar release.

If a student shows up w/ guns, ammo, or equipment that cannot be safely used, then we will lend pistols and holsters that we have for that purpose. Mostly Ruger .22 semis.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I've seen that video before but I didn't know the whys and wherefores.

By the way, what's the concern with single action revolvers?

 

[MikeD]

TheSerpa holsters are banned by many trainers around here as well. Both for the possibility of ND and the design flaw that renders it useless if a small piece of debris gets into the release mechanism. (I.e. the gun is locked in the holster and cannot be removed)

I have no exp with any of the cheaper guns listed so far so I really cant comment.

I did shoot a HiPoint once. It is cheaply made, heavy as hell and has all plastic internals, but it worked flawlessly for me.

 

[Scoop]

I've seen that video before but I didn't know the whys and wherefores.

By the way, what's the concern with single action revolvers?

The concern w/ single action revolvers is not one of safety. They are just too slow to load and reload. Time constraints you know.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I took one to the range today, so yes I know how it is.

 

[Scoop]

You should never take one. You can't reload single actions when your are in trouble. You need two.

But I guess if it is just for fun then one is OK.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I also had two automatics and four rifles handy. BUT...

We were just going to the range for fun & practice.

If I was anticipating trouble I would have taken a shotgun.

 

[Scoop]

I should tell this as if it happened to a stupid friend of mine so we could all nod knowingly and snicker at his expense. But I'm the stupid friend and I'll just tell it like it is.

Back in '97 I got a revolver for my wife. It was a 5-shot .38 revolver for self-defense. She even shot it in IDPA competition.

That wasn't the bad gun. I decided I should have a .22 revolver to train her [and others] with. So I went to pawn shop in Jonesboro, GA to see what I could get. They had brand new Rexio 8-shot spinners for about $85. I bought it and took it out the range the next Saturday.

The timing was so bad I couldn't get thru a whole cylinder w/o having to mess with it. There were sharp edges and corners in the frame that actually cut my fingers when I maneuvered it for unloading and reloading. I fired about 20 rounds thru it before I got the hint and quit.

I packed it up being sure not to get any blood on the box and returned home. I spent more time cleaning that hunk of trash than shooting it. On Monday I took it back to the shop and told the story to the pawn broker to get my money back. HA! He offered me half and I raised strong objections. We came to an agreement that I could get $75 in store credit. There wasn't any musical instrument, radio, video game, gun, or toy in the whole store that I wanted. Finally I asked him if he had ammo and I took my credit in .38 special [overpriced].

I learned a lesson and bought a $300 S&W .22 that I still have and love.

 

[CaddmannQ]

So far even the cheapest guns I have bought do not seem to be that bad.
I did pass on a Kahr semi-auto .45cal, which was attractively priced, but I'd heard some negative things about Kahr.

 

[meanstreak]

I've had a High Point 9 mm for about three years now. It is cheap, but it fires every time. I take it to the range, shoot it and take it home and clean it. Same results each time. It definitely is not fancy, nor is it a conversations piece, but it has been reliable for me.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I'm bumping this to mention that I actually bought a Kahr, and I will find out if it's junk soon.

:chaingun:

I will put up a new post for it soon.

 

[Scoop]

I'm bumping this to mention that I actually bought a Kahr, and I will find out if it's junk soon.
I will put up a new post for it soon.

Yes. Please let me know. Include make and model. We have not had too may problems w/ Kahrs, but if you can fry yours it would be interesting.

I've had a High Point 9 mm for about three years now. It is cheap, but it fires every time. ... but it has been reliable for me.

We recently added the High Point 9mm to the disallowed firearms list for our concealed carry class. Too many malfs and not enuff time to mess w/ 'em.

 

[CaddmannQ]

Well my wife said that she is going to take the Kahr and I'm going to end up with the M&P. We'll see how that works out after she actually shoots them at the range. So far she's just going on looks.

Anyhow I picked up a couple boxes of .380 auto ammunition today and I picked up some Lyman carbide reloading dies for .380 as well.

Just nine more days to go . . .

 

[Bobster]

I've had a High Point 9 mm for about three years now. It is cheap, but it fires every time. I take it to the range, shoot it and take it home and clean it. Same results each time. It definitely is not fancy, nor is it a conversations piece, but it has been reliable for me.

Hickok 45 does a "review" of the "compact" 9mm in one of his gootoob videos. Doesn't really have much negative to say but also doesn't have much positive, either...