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Question Of The Month. (December 2017)(Changes To NICS)

carbinemike

carbinemike

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"Philanthropist"
Howdy,
This is a monthly series of questions topic for everyone to join in on the discussion. Some of the later questions may have a poll, and some will not. Don't be shy now, go ahead and post an answer and vote in the polls.

What changes, if any, should be made to the NICS background check system?
 
I may be out of the majority here, but I don’t think it’s done much (measurable) good, so I think it should be repealed.

Felons gonna felon. NICS hasn’t stopped them. And even when it has, the ratio of people getting charged with lying on the form is so close to zero that it’s almost immeasurable. It’s penalty free to try before you buy. And if rejected, they can acquire elsewhere. Always have, always will.

If a law is ineffective AND unenforced, why keep it?

Oh, that’s right...silly me. It comes in handy for tracking me, personally, because I tell the truth on my applications. Oh, and paperwork for NFA is retained forever, making it a defacto registration.


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DP308 is apparently a mindreader. As soon as I saw the question I formulated an answer that was what DarkPass had already written. His response was much more eloquent than mine, so I'll just say DITTO.

Registration = confiscation
 
I don't know what we should do to fix it, but I found this so telling:

" . . . submitting oneself to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Back-ground Check System (NICS) is a fast and simple process that does not significantly burden lawful firearms transferees."

Well I think the founding fathers would have disagreed. The burden is not only significant, but unendurable, that the state should automatically keep track of Firearms owners as if they were all potential enemies of the people.

But out of an over abundance of caution (or fear) our government is going for this no-stone-left-unturned policy; & following through to the logical conclusion, it will vilify Americans by simply making us into paper criminals.

If you're Hillary Clinton they need to show clear intent of treason before they can prosecute you for a crime that everyone sees you have committed.

If you are Joe Nobody, then you can expect to be prosecuted for crimes everyone knows you have not committed, if it's convenient for people like Hillary Clinton.

Welcome to the world of the Gold n Rules.

 
Having a CPL in MI exempts me from the check unless I buy from some of the big box stores that have their own policy despite the ATF opinion, and I rarely buy from them.

Handguns still have to be registerred locally after the sale.

Yes some there are people that should not have guns that are successfully denied via this process but it only works for people who actualy attempt to buy their guns legally. How many guns used in crimes were acquired legally buy the perpetrator of the crime?

It does nothing to prevent a criminal from acquiring a gun via other means or from stopping a legal purchaser who decides to go off on the nut after buying their gun. There is no legislation that can prevent that but have numerous laws to deal with the aftermath.

I dont see it going away, if anything there will be stronger pushes to require it for private sales as well.

We keep creating more rules and laws to correct the rules and laws we have that dont work because we dont enforce them and the people they are meant to stop don't follow them. That sounds a lot like the definition of insanity to me.

I am of the same opinion as the posters above, any type of registration will eventually lead to restriction and eventually confiscation.
 
MikeD said:
Having a CPL in MI exempts me from the check
...
Handguns still have to be registerred locally after the sale.
...
I am of the same opinion as the posters above, any type of registration will eventually lead to restriction and eventually confiscation.
Click to expand...

"Registered locally" -
Who keep those registration records in your state?
Who has access to them?
What do you do when you sell a "registered gun?"
Has anybody checked guns for proper registration except as an aftermath criminal investigation?
What does your sheriff plan to do when some "Pelosi-Schumer Confiscation Bill" gets passed in 2019?

Those are not questions just for MikeD. Those are questions each of us must ask ourselves.
There is a great battle in the future on this, believe me. WE are not gaining solid footholds in my opinion.
The minimum "off paper" item for any person is one.
I shall not surrender. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ [I'm really old. Decide for yourself the proper time to take the pledge.]

Registration = Confiscation
 
Rignt now, based on where I live a copy of the RI-060, pistol sales record, goes to the sheriff, the seller and the purchaser. It is up to the purchaser to submit their registry copy to the appropriate city/county office within 10 days of the purchase.

It is up to the buyer to register it. If I sell a gun and they do not register it, it remains in my name. I ALWAYS keep the seller copy of the form when I sell a handgun. That is the only proof I have that it is no longer in my possession.

An RI-010, permit to purchase, is provided at the appropriate county office when one applies for a permit to purchase. Without A CPL you must have one issued from the office and it expires 30 days from issue

For CPL holders use the RI-060 that we just print the forms off the internet for private sales or we if the purchase was made through a dealer they typically provide then.

The form must be filled in triplicate and distributed as I stated above for a legal sale.

As part of the CPL process my prints are submitted to the State Police and with our new expanded check, the Feds, which is why we can bypas the NICS check.

I do no know off hand where the registry form ends up or who has access. Once assimilated into the machine I assume it can be anywhere and viewable by anyone. My offhand guess would be a state database, wbich probably is accessable from some federal one

On long guns there is only the FFl transfer form and background check for non CPL holders. For private sale there is no requirement for paperwork.
 
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It happened to a friend of a friend here. He inherited a gun, they told him he had to register it, when he did they did a background check, he failed and they took all his guns.

The item on his record was a misdemeanor charge from the mid-70s, and this old guy haden't bought any new guns in all that time, and had never registered anything.
 
Government corruption is rampant, illegal immigration is rampant, violence of all kind all around us, and yet the government wants to take away our means of defending ourself.
There is something very wrong in this picture.

An armed society is made up of citizens. An unarmed society becomes subjects.

The current system is restrictive enough, and yet folks slip through the cracks. More restrictive laws won't change that.
 
MikeD said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...eople-who-failed-background-checks/901017001/

Exclusive: Feds issue 4,000 orders to seize guns from people who failed background checks
Click to expand...

The ATF declined to provide information on the 4,170 gun purchases the FBI referred for seizure last year. They reflect a substantial increase from 2,892 requests the previous year.

The FBI said the ATF is not required to report back on the status of the retrieval efforts.

Yet in 2004, the Justice Department's inspector general found that the ATF's retrieval efforts were plagued by staffing shortages, technological inefficiencies and a general lack of urgency that resulted in recovery delays of up to a year.

"ATF agents did not consider most of the prohibited persons who had obtained guns to be dangerous and therefore did not consider it a priority to retrieve the firearm promptly,'' report concluded.
Click to expand...
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Things are pretty easy here in OH. Go to the FFL, fill out a form (or computer as at BPS), wait a few minutes for a phone call, buy the firearm, go home. No additional registration required. Not sure how any changes in the current NICS will make a difference. Staff shortages, improper/incomplete/nonexistent reporting will make any changes moot. Like Caddman said in another thread, garbage in/garbage out. It is never going to go away and any new layer of rules will only make things worse not better or more effective. I do believe that if the NICS doesn't stop a transaction and latter determines the firearm should not have been purchased then they are financially responsible to reimburse the buyer if the weapon is taken. This bullshit about the government taking what they want without regard to repayment needs to end. Immediately. Call it a "stupid tax" for the NICS and ATF. But I digress...
 
Thank God that President Trump understands that crap about too many rules creating chaos, and has been struggling to delete regulations from the manual of organizations like the EPA and the BLM.

Nobody has ever done this and I am hoping that it will spill over into the BATF as he promised.
 
OhioArcher, that sounds like what it is like here in Oklahoma as well. The whole process takes maybe a half hour. The hardest part for me is filling out the application. Lord knows I don't want to make a mistake.
 
Having a CCW in Georgia makes a gun purchase simple. They make a copy of your carry license and drivers license, and then you fill out form 4473 and you are out the door with your new toy.
 
CaddmannQ said:
Thank God that President Trump understands that crap about too many rules creating chaos, and has been struggling to delete regulations from the manual of organizations like the EPA and the BLM.

Nobody has ever done this and I am hoping that it will spill over into the BATF as he promised.
Click to expand...

A few years back I gave a speech at a gun club where Eric Trump is a member.
After my speech he came looking for me to discuss more gun issues.
Believe me it is nice to know that someone who has the Presidents ear, UNDERSTANDS what all us legal gun owners have to go through with most of the BS gun laws we are forced to follow.
 
Long guns and stripped receivers are 4473 and out the door. No registration in nys unless NYC.

Handguns require a permit and fingerprints and state approval for license. Takes 6 months to 2 years (mine took like 8 months) depending on county.

After issued license it's a pita to buy and place on your license (back and forth to the license unit like 2 times per buy).

All handguns are registered.

Warning to free states. Never let it get to this.
 
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