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.30-30 my latest reloads, and the state of the economy

***Here is just an observation about my 464. I don't know if these rifles are all sensitive to the volume of powder loaded but I noticed that mine is. I have used several different loads and I have found that the rifle shoots more accurately if I use a powder that is rather bulky and fills the case up nearly to the base of the bullet. Reloader 15, at 35.0 grains is a god powder for my 125 gr FNHP Sierras'. Even with the gooey barrel first time out the 125s grouped 1 1/2" at 50 yards. The load was with Reloader 15. I shot an almost identical group with the 150 gr. FNSP. 1" higher but also in the bull. The powder was 37.5 gr Hodgdon Leverevolution powder. That was very near case cap also. BUT, H-LVR is a fine grained powder and it takes a pretty stiff charge to fill the case up to near the shoulder.

I will be trying different powders and I will be looking for a bit of bulk. I will let ya know what I find. If anyone knows how to determine the bulkiness, or if any of you fellers know what powder has a bit of bulk and works well in a 30-30 let me know. I am not sure if more bulk means slower burning, but if the rifle prefers a 170 gr bullet, as some articles seem to suggest, a slower powder may be why the heavy bullet works better. But I do know that any cartridge out there will give more uniform groups if the case is filled to near case capacity. I will have to look into this.

I have not worked out the first round/cold barrel flier yet but that is coming up next trip. The dirty barrel definitely was a major cause of my stringing and off the target shots but since the first cleaning, shots settled down a lot, and the best groups were the results of a nearly full case of powder. Seems a bulkier powder works best in my rifle.
 
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Just jotting down my mental notes before I forget them...

This is probably old news to you guys who have done more testing with different powders. I had read Lee Precision's VMD powder Volume info some time back. It never stuck. I just revisited that info and now I can see how to make sure I am getting a better case fill in the cartridges I load.

Here is what you will get if you look for it on Lee's website:

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/245/27/vmd-explanation

So far it appears that I will get a better case fill with IMR 4198 with a max charge but with the charge I am using, Reloader 15 fills the case better yet; but by the numbers, 3031 at 33.0 gr fills the case best of all. It DO bear a look-at.

H-LVR and IMR 4198 are similar in bulk and both work ok. The VMD of H-LVR is .0653 while the IMR 4198 is .0792. Looks like a big difference but it is not. However at max charge according to the manuals both will fill the case sufficiently.

In essence, the bulk comparisons are far from being absolutes for determining possible accuracy and uniformity but are only helpful (to me, so far as I understand its usefulness) in seeing how many cc's my particular charge will measure. I think it still depends on the rifle, and component list per load, and bulk capacity is just one small part of the equation. Carry on...

PS In other woids, I will just have to shoot n see what works best...just like I knew I would.
 
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oli700 said:
Next time you sight in your rifle try IMR 3031.....you wont be sorry
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I used it in my Marlin 336 and it didn't do so well. but haven't had a chance to use it in the 464. I ran out so I need to get more. I see 3031 is almost the universal go to for the 3030 so that is on my list of powders to get.
 
hard to say what will work with all the variables in components and firearms but I have had great results in everything I can put it in from 30-06Spring to 223Rem.....havent used it in 30-30 but it seems like it would be great and it fills a case like no other
 
oli700 said:
hard to say what will work with all the variables in components and firearms but I have had great results in everything I can put it in from 30-06Spring to 223Rem.....haven't used it in 30-30 but it seems like it would be great and it fills a case like no other
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I will give it a try.
 
hombre243 said:
I will give it a try.
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Another forum entry: OP said that the Leverevolution ammo and bullets were designed for the Marlin Microgroove barrels. I cannot verify it but I have not heard a lot of good comments from non-Marlin owners who have used the ammo or the bullets in their Mossy. Another point made is that several people whose posts I read say this rifle shows a distinct preference for the 170 gr bullets above all other weights. Looks like that is my next bullet purchase.
 
hombre243 said:
Another forum entry: OP said that the Leverevolution ammo and bullets were designed for the Marlin Microgroove barrels. I cannot verify it but I have not heard a lot of good comments from non-Marlin owners who have used the ammo or the bullets in their Mossy. Another point made is that several people whose posts I read say this rifle shows a distinct preference for the 170 gr bullets above all other weights. Looks like that is my next bullet purchase.
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I ordered 3 boxes of Speer 170gr fnsp. They should be here Tuesday. I already have (I think) 6 powders to test with, and if I can't get something I like with them I will try 3031 and a few other powders. 3031 will be one of them. I did ok with the Leverevolution powder with the 150s so I am hoping to do even better with 170s. I will post my results.
 
I got the new Kwik-site mount shaved down & mounted about 2 AM.

Now 9:15 AM, Going to the rifle club to sight it in.

I'm taking Judy, her new Ruger, the AR, the 30-30, the gill gun and the shotgun, plus the .22 pistol and the .38 revolver. 1000 rounds, various loads.

Big range report later if l dont crash after cleaning all of them.
 
Well I didn't do too bad. I didn't spend all day with the .30-30 because I had 6 other guns with me.

I had already been shooting for about an hour and a half with other guns, when I did this, so I wasn't in great shape. The scope stayed nice and tight but it took me several adjustment to get it sighted in this well. I ran out of ammo so this is the best that I did with the Mossberg 464 Mariner.

This was shot in a variable light wind from the left. It was over 105°F but we were shooting from the shade.

50 yds, 150 grn Hornaday American Whitetails.

VZM.IMG_20160604_180711.jpg
 
I didn't keep any of the other targets because we basically just shot the snot out of them for fun.

Judy shot her new Ruger 10/22 with Vortex Diamondback scope. She's really doing well with that setup and she loves the scope but it needs a little more tuning and she hasn't learned how to do that yet.

She put a hundred rounds of Gecko 40grn German match grade Target ammo through that and about 40 rounds through the 22 Ruger pistol.

They both shot flawlessly but I also think they both are more accurate with a higher velocity bullet.

I put a hundred rounds of Federal Premium 40 grain Gold Match target ammo through the Savage Gill gun, and I also ran a couple tubes of CCI shorts through it. The shorts will not work the action and so you have to talk at each time to shoot them. But it's fun watching the bullet get so slow at 50 yards that it was around sideways and drops two feet while you can see it through the scope.

I bedded the pillar down with epoxy putty a couple days ago. I also added a dished aluminum washer under the takedown bolt, and the gun is really much more solid and shoots better than ever.

I shot a hundred rounds of 223 for the AR-15 and was not at all happy. The 50-yard accuracy was really much less than I was hoping for. I was shooting 55grn bulk .223 ammo from Walmart.

I shouldn't really blame the ammo I was having a hard time with the gun.

The retractable buttstock is convenient but it's terrible on accuracy.

Also something went wrong with the Bolt latch. It got stuck in the halfway latched position. I pried it loose and continued shooting but something needs attention.

This might be related to the California Bullet Button installation. I don't know as I haven't torn it apart yet.

I shot a dozen rounds of American Eagle 38 Special through the . 38 evil Roy pistol, and so did Judy. She's getting a good handle on that gun.

I only shot two shells from the Ranger 16 gauge, before the range officer told us that we would have to take it to the official shotgun range, at which point I put it away. Remington number 6 shot 1 ounce bunny loads.

I'm getting lots of compliments on that gun. I didn't do a great job on the wood graining but from 4 feet away you can't tell it has fiberglass.
 
Yes, the first shot was lower left.
I corrected the scope several clicks, as I had come in from the left & the cold shot is usually much farther right. Then I strung 5 shots, very slow fire. Sometimes I just blast away and sometimes I am very careful and count my heart beats and breathing and shoot very slowly.

This was the first group where I got 6 on the paper, and it was also my last 6 rounds, so, tired as I was, I fired with extreme care.

In the sighting-in process I jumped from 7 yards to 50, which was a mistake. A 25 yd target would have been $2 and saved me $12 in wasted ammo.

But I think any one of those last shots would have taken down a deer or small bear.
 
Yep. You wouldn't need that many shots at a deer either. The first few would have done the job too, come to think of it. The vertical dispersion there is good.
 
CaddmannQ said:
Well I didn't do too bad. I didn't spend all day with the .30-30 because I had 6 other guns with me.

I had already been shooting for about an hour and a half with other guns, when I did this, so I wasn't in great shape. The scope stayed nice and tight but it took me several adjustment to get it sighted in this well. I ran out of ammo so this is the best that I did with the Mossberg 464 Mariner.

This was shot in a variable light wind from the left. It was over 105°F but we were shooting from the shade.

50 yds, 150 grn Hornaday American Whitetails.

View attachment 12603
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Cadd, that one down at about 7:00...first shot?

OOPS. Now I see the other post...
 
sullivan said:
I look forward to your results, hombre. I am playing catch up with this rifle:confused:
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One thing I read in a review concerned the balance point of the rifle. I know mine does not balance at the same point as when it was from the factory. A scope and cheek pad moves the balance point back some. But, this rifle is very light in the front end and the original balance point is right at the joint where the forend meets the receiver.

If the shooters rests the rifle on the forend/forearm at the point just a few inches back from the tip of the forend the bulk of the weight is behind the balance point. Recoil (in my mind, no way for me to prove this scientifically) most likely will cause the barrel to rise more than if the rifle was rested farther back.

I did get better results by resting the rifle back near the receiver, and also at that point resting in my palm, on top of a Go-Rilla bag. I got better groups with no real stringing. Any flier I had was most likely my fault. That first shot seems to be the culprit and is either caused by firing a cold barrel or a clean barrel and I am inclined to believe it is a cold barrel. My last group fired was a 10 shot group, cooled after 5 shots, but not swabbed with a Hoppe's patch. The first shot of the 10 was a little low and left. All others seemed to like it closer to the bullseye.

I think this little popgun needs some more shooting. But after a good polishing with J&B I think it will make a better showing.

As mentioned in another post My health has kept me home. But it has improved enough I may get out by the weekend. Of course I will show my results but if any of you levergun shooters who are having stringing problems (even in as close as 25-50 yards) try changing how you rest the rifle according to your own balance point and see some improvement in your groups, please pass on the info and maybe we can find out if we need to switch to Marlins.:eek:

I am even wondering if these rifles have an abnormally deep groove, which may need some fillin in before shooting, and cleaning the bore too thoroughly may be more of a hindrance than help.

I am starting with a bare bore. Other than the remaining trace of oil after a swipe with a clean patch I will be starting my sighting in process all over and recording shot by shot info, and, I will only be swabbing every 10 shots now instead of 5. Then, a longer string between swabbings to see how it likes a dirty bore. I don't like the idea of scrubbing the rifle from the front end anyway and the snakes can only do so much. So, we shall see.

***Caddmann, have you looked for copper fouling? I am told that is worse than carbon fouling when it comes to accuracy. Your groups look pretty good but it never hurts to check. It could be too that the info i got about copper fouling has more to do with using lead bullets but any fouling will hurt accuracy.

I have Sweet's and use a plastic ram tip to push a wet patch through and wet the bore. This keeps the copper and bronze brushes away from the patch so if it turns blue you know it is in the bore and not coming from the brushes or patch tips.
 
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So far I haven't had an issue with copper fouling, but I do clean the gun well after every trip.

We've loaded some FMJ 165 gr boat-tailed spitzers for the next test rounds, but I would not be able to load the tube mag with them. too dangerous.

I'm intending to shoot 2-round groups & we'll see if the fliers calm down.
 
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