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What to do when they actually come for your guns.

Tom396

Tom396

.30-06
The more I read about the inevitable passage of these "Red Flag Gun Confiscation Laws", the higher my blood pressure gets...and I can't afford it to be much higher. I always come back to what I personally am going to do when they knock on my door. Does all that "Come and take it", "From my cold dead hands", and "Molon Labe" bravado go out the door when they have a signed warrant in their hands? I read an editorial on TheTruthAboutGuns recently that broached this exact question. The author basically stated that you should do exactly as instructed so that no one gets arrested or hurt. It sort of turned my stomach. I don't feel I am some sort of bad ass. Quite the contrary. I like to go along to get along. I actually hate confrontation. But where does it end? What line has to be crossed? I highly respect law enforcement officers. I am friends with some and have yet to meet any that I couldn't get along with. My outside nightlights are blue, in support of law enforcement. Do I want to shoot at them? Holy hell. Absolutely not. No matter what the outcome after that, I would never get over it. Do I want to die or be gravely injured by law enforcement, not at all. If law enforcement showed up with a warrant to arrest me, I would go along with any and all of their instructions. If I am accused of being such a bad guy, that is what is supposed to happen. I'm supposed to go to jail. But this is The Constitution we are talking about. Am I willing to die defending it or not?

Do I know what I'll do when and if it were to actually happen? No. Heck, I might just curl up into the fetal position and start crying like a little girl. I can't predict what I'll do until I do it. But I sure have been thinking a lot (too much?) about it, lately. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
I have heard many say that they wouldn't comply on both sides of the argument. I get the sentiment.

I also believe that the ones breaching your door are not going to be your friendly neighborhood local hero that has lived there for years and has many friends and relatives in the community.

The ones they do get to do the door breaching are not going to know you, or care to F you over. In short, the worst kind of scum. And likely not even Americans at all or far left antifa communist bastards with a hard on to have an excuse to kill us.

I have heard many say they would comply while they are there as best they can for the reasons you gave because one man is not going to be able to make a stand against so many. They'll just burn the house down around you like they did that Dorner in California when they tracked him down. If you haven't seen the footage of all the cops shooting their machineguns to keep him pinned in the home as they filled the house with smoke and CS grenades, which coincidentally set the cabin on fire, you should watch it. I suspect this will be the same tactic they will use on gun owners who resist to send a message.


Best you can hope for is some advance notice that it's happening in the community and try to follow them to where they're staying and turn the tables onto them before they get to you.

Predators use this tactic to break up a herd to pick off one or two rather than trying to take out the whole herd at once.

And they're not going to have the man power to go door to door. It'll be more of a unsuspected compliance check in the wee hours of the morning thing.

I also believe that there will be many who will not wait until they are confiscating before acting.


Those in the media calling for it will get to see what it's like on the wrong end of it, and so will the politicians and their families that vote it in.

I may be wrong and I surely didn't stay at a holiday inn last night, so I hope that my scenario never plays out, but that's how I suspect it'll go down in flames.
 
To each theyre own way.
Anyone heard of Eric Rudolph ???
All the kings horses and men couldnt bring him in. Till I believe he was ready too. Could have lived till death free had he truly chosen that.
On May 5, 1998, he became the 454th fugitive listed by the FBI on the Ten Most Wanted list. The FBI considered him to be armed and extremely dangerous, and offered a $1 million reward for information leading directly to his arrest. He spent more than five years in the Appalachian wilderness as a fugitive, during which time federal and amateur search teams scoured the area without success.

In the famous words of Cartman, "screw you guys I'm,goin home !"
 
To be clear, I wasn't really thinking about a wider conflict. I was thinking specifically about these "Red Flag" laws. I am sure there are going to be mistakes made, if there hasn't already been. Wrong name, wrong address, somebody with a bone to pick setting you up, etc. But regardless, what am I going to do, when it actually happens. Am I simply going to let them have my firearms? I know full well there is no possible legitimate reason for my firearms to be legally taken away, but am I going to let it happen because the right people show up with the right documents? To me, it's actually a much easier question to answer, if it were a wider conflict. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
Tom396 said:
To be clear, I wasn't really thinking about a wider conflict. I was thinking specifically about these "Red Flag" laws. I am sure there are going to be mistakes made, if there hasn't already been. Wrong name, wrong address, somebody with a bone to pick setting you up, etc. But regardless, what am I going to do, when it actually happens. Am I simply going to let them have my firearms? I know full well there is no possible legitimate reason for my firearms to be legally taken away, but am I going to let it happen because the right people show up with the right documents? To me, it's actually a much easier question to answer, if it were a wider conflict. Take care. Tom Worthington
Click to expand...

They killed a dude cause his sister called in a red flag. His sister. This will go wrong more than right.
 
@Tom396 this has been on my mind too. It will most certainly be abused and some people will likely be killed. PA doesn't have the red flag law yet but they are mulling it in Harrisburg. Sadly to many republican politicians look at this as a "common sense" law they can safely get behind and claim they "are doing something" while saying they aren't selling out the 2A. They are traitors. I have been thinking that these laws will put a dent in promoting gun rights for some. All you need is that family member or friend that doesn't like guns or has an axe to grind and sy good bye to your guns. Do we need to plan ahead and buy guns (where it's legal) that don't require a background check or step up to 80% builds? Do we need 2 storage locations to protect the guns bought/built that way? We probably aren't there quite yet but it seems the time is coming.

Between states requiring registration along with red flag laws it seems like the two could be used via an executive order and some anti gun judges to disarm a large section of the population.

Tom, did you miss the March "Question of the Month"? I didn't see any posts there from you. It covered this topic: http://www.mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/question-of-the-month-march-2019.18948/

@Djcala that is a great song..."I learned a thing or two from ol' Charlie don't ya know, you better stay away from Copperhead Road"
 
Tom396......I like your avatar. When my wife and I tied the knot waaaaay back in '72 she drove a '69 SS 396 Chevelle. Why, the car got upwards of 15-17 mpg on the highway. That is of course, if we could keep our foot out of the carburetor but why do that? These days as we enjoy our "golden years" our sunny, dry day, dry road cruiser is a '16 Hemi Challenger R/T in Plum Crazy Purple. The local cops look at it with about the same appetite that a hunter looks at a 6 point bull elk during hunting season but I think that I have outgrown or outlived by burnout days. Most of the time these days I drive as if I do not have s**t for brains like I had back in the day. Lots of muscle cars around here....plenty of 5.0 Mustangs and SS Camaros. We just kind of stare at each other at an intersection, just like back in '71. All that is missing is the 8 track tape player and we all had more hair back then.

Last night on local news one of the headline stories was Colorado Gov. Polis signing the "Red Flag" bill into law. Present with him was my sheriff, Douglas County Sheriff Tony Spurlock decked out in uniform, glad handing with all of the progressive anti-2A gun grabbers in front of cameras for the nation to see and for the liberty lovers out there to remember. My stomach did a slow turn and my blood pressure went up 10 points at least. Douglas County is probably one of the most "Red" counties in the state, maybe a second place behind neighboring El Paso(Colorado Springs)County. Spurlock has served for 39 years in the Douglas County Sheriff's Office. I voted for him twice for sheriff. I will work for and vote for his recall as soon as the law allows. That is of course if the county commissioners do not remove him from office first.

In a few days we will observe what I and many others call the most important day in our nation's history. Our country was born of a gun grab and it started in Boston...... On the evening of April 18, 1775 Paul Revere and others set out through the countryside to warn the people that "The Redcoats were coming!" On the morning of April 19 the local militia in Lexington met upwards of 700-800 Redcoats on what I guess could be termed the "village green". The Redcoats were there under orders to collect/confiscate all militia supplies of muskets, powder, shot and any field artillery that the town possessed. Vastly outnumbered the local militiamen were in a sense of disarray due to a lack of men and proper training. The militiamen were ordered by the British commander to disarm and disperse. Someone fired a shot and to this day no one knows from which side the shot came from. Several of our forefathers, be they literal or be they political, lay dead on the ground. The Redcoats had little to no injuries in this minor skirmish. Because of the warnings that went out the night before the inhabitants of the neighboring town of Concord were gathered and ready. This 700-800 man British force were met by what some historians say was a force of 3000-3500 local militia and the rest is history. Suffice it to say that the British losses were heavy that day and the locals pounded and sniped at them all the way back to Boston. So much for their gun grab and it got the attention of King George III.

All that the colonists had wanted was to be afforded the same rights as all Englishmen but the Crown was not to have it. So, something happened that fateful day. The line between the powers that be and the powers that were to be now had a distinctive line separating them. The British had crossed the line and had become an enemy of the people. A protector one day and an enemy the next. The locals are no longer "subjects" but are rebels and have taken on the distinction "American". The fight for American Independence will wage on for seven years.

I am in no way suggesting that we modern day Americans should repeat the events of 1775-1781 but things do have a way of taking shape regardless of what any of us think or hope. As a young man of barely 17, upon enlisting in the U.S. Army I took an oath to "Support and Defend the United States Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic" along with a few million other men and women out there. We are still under oath. We have never been in any way relieved of debriefed of that oath. My commitment to my oath will end when my Heavenly Father calls me home and not until. The day that I trash my oath by declaring war or acts thereof against my fellow Americans I have become something else. I have become a traitor to my country and all the good it stands for. I will caution any and all, be they law enforcement, state, county or federal, U.S. Military or National Guard to stay true to your oath and to not follow any unconstitutional orders. When any of you cross that line that separates liberty from tyranny the worst may happen.....Perhaps your own Copperhead Road moment and the guns for hire mercenaries employed by some level of government best heed the warnings also. No, we can't all just get along.

A local gun grab on some poor unsuspecting soul may start out small and many will comply rather than face armed confrontation but sooner or later resistance will be met. This question begs to be asked, What is an acceptable number of dead from each side of this argument before government/law enforcement/military realize that they have made a huge mistake? History has a habit of repeating itself in spite of anyone's intentions. All of us need to work very hard to avoid the worst that can happen. Government can start by crawling back into the cigar box that was designed for it to fit in. We, the People can start by reminding government who they really work for.



.
 
Climber, well said. Every day I also wonder what our enemies are thinking. I mean foreign. They surely are happy to think of the day the citizens of the United States could be disarmed by it's own government.
 
Several years ago, say about '98-'99 there were three men that did an armed robbery at a gambling casino down around the 4 corners area. For those that do not know what the 4 corners area is, that is where the states of Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah meet and form "4 Corners". A unique area, the only place in our beautiful America where four states converge. The area surrounding 4 Corners in any direction is what some may term as inhospitable desert landscape that is as deadly as it is beautiful to look at. So, in short, if you go there, be prepared. The crime was committed on an Indian reservation and the trio saw fit to murder a local peace officer that was pursuing them. Because the crimes were committed in a federal jurisdiction this brought LEOs from state, federal and National Guard into the manhunt. Needless to say that local residents were up in arms and on the lookout. They pursued the trio for several days with 500 or more members of this multi-state, multi-jurisdictional task force only for the trio to vanish into the desert country of western Colorado and southeastern Utah. Now, if memory serves, this trio was described as camo clad, military like weaponry, survivalist looking types. After several days one of the trio killed himself in some small town in eastern Utah. The other two were reported found at separate times and locations in the desert dead of exposure. End of search. Good guys win. Locals over an area bigger that some eastern states stand down and things get back to normal.

The point that I want make using the aforementioned events;
About the same time or shortly after the above incidents my bad luck found me involved in an FBI investigation that involved a friend of mine at the time but no longer, that was involved in illegal activities and I will on purpose not say what those activities were. I had the occasion to spend a few hours being interviewed by an FBI Special Agent and his associate, a Special Deputy U.S. Marshal and I will say that the time spent was educational and perhaps somewhat edifying for the three of us. I was at no time a suspect or an accomplice in any illegal activity and we all parted at least friendly in the end. The subject of "militia" came up and quickly the conversation changed from my former friend's illegal activity to the subject of "militia". The conversation quickly drifted off into the area of gun control and gun confiscation. My two inquisitors were very up front to admit to me that they were very 2A friendly and to be honest, I was never given any signals or vibes to suggest that they were otherwise. Now that we are all "friends" here I posed this scenario to them; In light of the events of late down around 4 Corners where government's response to three desperados was a 500 man LEO task force. Just suppose that government at every level decides to go on a gun grab. If their response to three gunmen in the desert is 500 LEOs, what are they, the government going to do when they are faced with a rifleman or woman resisting for the right reasons, in a big, noisy and bloody fashion all over this great nation of ours? This is same reason that Hitler never invaded the Swiss. The room fell silent for several seconds and these two gentleman looked at me like "Huh". Their response....The FBI man said that they have considered such and he admitted with the USMS man shaking his head in the affirmative that "We, the government will never win that fight". We also agreed that all of us need to work very hard that it never comes down to a gun grab followed by an armed response by We, the People. That is what I mean that we had an educational and perhaps an edifying exchange here. I will say this again, I am in no way even suggesting that the time is upon us to take up some form of an armed response against some or all levels of government. The ones on our opposite side are paying attention and they fear an armed citizenry. They fear an armed, educated and trained citizenry even more. We really do not have to worry about the stupid ones out there as they will see fit to just get in the way.

So, my friends, work hard for peaceful solutions but stand by your liberty principles. Pray hard if you are of a mind and heart to do so.
 
Climber, I've had "what-if-just-off-the-record' talks w/ Sheriffs and Police Chiefs on similar subjects [GA, WI, TN]. Each of them have been of the "I would NOT grab guns" crowd. Even the one WI PC who did not support concealed carry in the state back in early 2000s said confiscation was a bad idea.

But... we've seen FBI behavior against Weaver at Ruby Ridge, ID and Koresh in Waco, TX and BLM vs. Bundy in NV. I know they were after what they considered really "bad guys" but in each of those incidents there were very questionable actions taken by the Gummint forces.

We keep getting closer to the tipping point. Future political shifts coinciding with some inevitable nut job mass shooting will get plenty of momentum out of the "enuff-is-enuff" idiots who know that they would be doing me a favor by removing any dangerous toys I might have.

Right now I live in a very gun friendly county and state. If things change I'll have some decisions to make. But my present mindset rejects any thoughts of giving up.
 
Make no mistake about it, there are many people who would like nothing more than to do this. I read an interview with presidential candidate Eric Swalwell who has been very vocal about "buying back evil weapons of war" or killing those who refuse.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/45952/jake-tapper-dem-rep-eric-swalwell-vast-majority-frank-camp

First off in a long list of grievances, #1 not all of my guns were bought in the first place. At least not with money. Some of them were worked off in labor. This is something that the government couldn't tax or even consider as "buying back" because they were paid for with sweat and blood and labor. No money involved in the first place.

Secondly, even if I did pay for a gun with federal reserve notes from me working, that is mine to spend as I choose. Not to be whether the government liked it or not.

Third, some were given to me as gifts and inheritances.

Fourth, guns are not just meant for hunting. Anyone running for President should have enough knowledge about how the country was founded to understand that. And if you do not, you have no business running for president.

Fifth,he can just bluntly kiss my ass. He is never going to get the DNC nomination anyway.

Sixth, what he doesn't know, outside of his close circle of jerks in California, the majority of Americans do not agree with him and do not fear inanimate objects. That is a mental condition.
 
Try this on for size......Twenty Nine Palms Survey. Google it and see what comes up. It is a bit dated as in mid-90s. It was part of graduate thesis done by Lt.Cmdr Guy Cunningham who by the way is a patriot. It involves a survey given to 300 or so combat marines dealing with their opinions regarding the United Nations. The survey builds up to question #46. If memory serves, about 24-26% of those questioned answered #46 in the affirmative. I will attempt to paraphrase; "The order has gone out for the American people to turn in all of their firearms. Those not turning them in at the end of 30 days face long prison terms or death. Will you fire on fellow Americans refusing to surrender their firearms?" That is as close as I can remember.

While we are on the subject of the U.N. let us ponder upon this....The U.S. government has been acting at the behest of the U.N. since at least 1950 with our entry into the Korean war. We were sent there by President Truman after a U.N. resolution was passed "authorizing" a "police action". The U.S. has followed up since then with following several such U.N. edicts that puts our blood and treasure on the line. It seems that the principle of American sovereignty got lost or ignored by our elected elite somewhere along the way. George H.W. Bush went before the U.N. back in '90-'91 to get the U.N. "permission" by way of a resolution to get Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. George W. Bush did pretty much the same thing prior to our of invasion of Iraq in 2003. Somewhere in between these two actions the U.S. invades Haiti to enforce another U.N. resolution. My memory is only too clear of footage of a U.S. Army staff sergeant with his M9 pistol pressed against the forehead of a young Haitian male while removing a concealed weapon from under the young Haitian's shirt. Suppose this; Hillary Clinton or one like her gets elected to the Oval Office. Because of her hatred for armed America she goes before the U.N. and gets their permission by way of a resolution to put U.N. troops on U.S. soil say, in some limited action to disarm the people of south Chicago or Baltimore or Newark or several other progressive strongholds that the "Ds" have seen fit to turn into cesspool experiments over the last 40-50 years. Does anyone remember Detroit, before and after? Would these actions be a violation of the U.S. Constitution? HELL YES! The Hillary's out there will worry little because the U.S. has been about the U.N. business of invading and disarming indigenous populations for going on 70 years. Some may consider that it is now our turn to feel the boots of foreign troops on our necks. Why should a soldier from the E.U. or some high dollar worshipping mercenary give a damn about our constitutional guarantees?

Does anyone remember the standoff between Ammon Bundy, his armed supporters and the hired guns of the BLM in southern Nevada a few years back? The BLM wisely backed down and dispersed rather than risk a shootout. We will never know but truth be known, the losses on the Bundy side would have been very heavy. The BLM would know that they had been in a fight with losses on their side also. I saw some photos and footage of at least three BLM sniper positions that were not hidden very well at all....Those were the ones that they wanted the Bundy's to see. There was no telling how many real sniper hides there were that the Bundy's and the media could not see. Photos of these not too well hidden snipers were somewhat telling as they revealed men in civilian garb that looked like military or "contractor". Their true identity may never be known. On the Oathkeepers website they had several photos regarding these men. Some men will do almost anything for the right amount of money or status and we might be surprised as to how little that money or status amounts to.
 
As I have mentioned elsewhere, I just don't ever see a massive door to door confiscation of all American firearms. The scale of it is just too large. On the other hand, I can imagine enough unconstitutional gun laws being passed that would make owning a firearm simply illegal. At that point, all you will able to do with your newly criminally owned firearm is keep it hidden.

On the other hand, these "Red Flag" laws are a pretty effective way to start getting people used to the idea of confiscations. If these confiscations continue to go on with little or no resistance, it could become even more effective in disarming the general population. And/or make law abiding folks less likely to even openly admit they own firearms. Again, I have to ask: Where is the line? I really don't want to go to jail and/or be shot. I really don't want to shoot at a law enforcement officer. But am I not turning by back on an oath I took long ago to preserve, protect, and defend The Constitution, if I don't take a stand? This sh*t is giving me headaches and I am actually losing sleep over it. Curse those b*st*rds who have pressed for these laws and are continuing to get them passed. :rules: Take care. Tom Worthington
 
No reason to lose sleep Tom.

You know what they're up to. And you know what the end goal is. It's like watching a re-run on TV. You already know how it ends.

They're going to do what they're going to do. Whether today, tomorrow or 100 years from now.

All I can do is urge everyone to hope for the best or prepare for the worst. Take whatever from that as you will.

In the meantime, when that time comes, no one will be coming to your rescue. And it'll be up to you to decide what you think you should do. The police won't be on your side. The government won't be on your side. The media will not be on your side.

On second thought, it's not much different than it is now, only there will likely be a time when you either dish it out or take it.

I am reminded what Samuel Adams once said. And on the same subject as well.

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”

“The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men.”
 
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