Question Of The Month. (March 2020) (Virus Thread)

[meanstreak]

I'll be praying for your church member and the whole congregation WM. Take good care of yourself and family. I'm afraid This is going to take longer than we thought initially.

 

[Bobster]

That anti-malarial Quina-something shows promise. Notice there are not a rash of cases from central Africa? The drug is very commonly used there.

 

[Scoop]

@Bobster @meanstreak and @ anybody else who lives in or near jurisdictions with curfews or limitations on non-essential travel:

How have those limitations been enforced? Do police stop travelers and issue tickets? Anybody fined? Incarcerated?
Do you have a right to a jury trial at a later date? Lots of courts are shut down except for urgent cases.

I'm wondering if I have to prepare a defense strategy for any upcoming legal shenanigans that would arise in my area.

 

[cmcdonald]

That anti-malarial Quina-something shows promise. Notice there are not a rash of cases from central Africa? The drug is very commonly used there.

Health Canada has authorized clinical trials of Hydroxychloroquine (Anti-malarial drug) in one of our hardest hit seniors facilities. Let’s hope you are correct.

Though I doubt it will be as effective as a vaccine it may be an effective therapy for those who are suffering the worst effects of the virus.

 

[meanstreak]

Scoop, as of now the police have issued citations to a couple of bar owners, the bars are supposed to be closed as of about a week ago, for having private parties. They had more than 10 people and someone reported them. However, we have now moved beyond that.

We still have grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, and hardware stores allowed to be open. Autos are not being stopped, but things have gotten stricter the past couple of days.

The mayor issued a stay at home order, and emphasized it is an order, not voluntary, a couple of days ago.The order says you are not allowed to have anyone in your home unless it is a family member or someone else that is delivering essential items, or helping one with a medical condition. And of course asking people to report violators. There is no way I am going to report my neighbors for having company.

I'm sure there are details I am leaving out, but I probably didn't pay close enough attention as I am sick to death of all of the continual bad news about Covid-19.

It's like we are living in the book 1984, or worse yet, cold war Russia.

 

[Scoop]

... The mayor issued a stay at home order, and emphasized it is an order, not voluntary, a couple of days ago... And of course asking people to report violators. There is no way I am going to report my neighbors for having company... It's like we are living in the book 1984, or worse yet, cold war Russia.

Yeah... I'm not turning anybody in for "social interaction" like they did in Cuba, Russia, China... I just hope US jurisdictions don't go overboard on restrictions.

This I just got from my cousin in NE TN. Their "emergency" is not too coercive.

link -> Sullivan County TN
​

The state of emergency declared by Bristol Tennessee Mayor Margaret Feierabend also took effect at 12:01 a.m., though it will remain in effect for only seven days unless extended. Feierabend told the Bristol Herald Courier since there are no cures or widely available vaccines, the social distancing her declaration calls for is the only tool to control the spread of COVID-19. She added that it became clear the city needed to act once new cases of the virus started popping up in the county on a daily basis.

“The community spread that became obvious on Friday was the impetus to push this forward,” Feierabend said.

The “safer at home” order also took effect this morning at 12:01, and according to the county Department of Health, the pandemic will be monitored and the order’s duration and any necessary changes will be determined.

Neither the state of emergency nor “safer at home” orders is criminally enforceable, but Feierabend said that wasn’t the intention.

“We don’t want to be heavy-handed,” Feierabend said.

Under the “safer at home” order, county residents must stay in their homes except for essential trips like going to the grocery store, picking up medication at the pharmacy, going to medical appointments, getting takeout from a restaurant, using a drive-thru or helping others get needed supplies. Leaving home to care for a friend or family member, exercise or walk pets are also allowed.

However, anyone engaging in those activities is asked to maintain 6 feet of space from others. Additionally, the “safer at home” order states that county residents should not go to work unless they provide an essential service, should not visit family or friends for non-emergency reasons and should not visit loved ones in hospitals or other care facilities.
​

We live in interesting times.​

 

[cmcdonald]

Yeah... I'm not turning anybody in for "social interaction" like they did in Cuba, Russia, China... I just hope US jurisdictions don't go overboard on restrictions.

This I just got from my cousin in NE TN. Their "emergency" is not too coercive.

link -> Sullivan County TN
​

The state of emergency declared by Bristol Tennessee Mayor Margaret Feierabend also took effect at 12:01 a.m., though it will remain in effect for only seven days unless extended. Feierabend told the Bristol Herald Courier since there are no cures or widely available vaccines, the social distancing her declaration calls for is the only tool to control the spread of COVID-19. She added that it became clear the city needed to act once new cases of the virus started popping up in the county on a daily basis.

“The community spread that became obvious on Friday was the impetus to push this forward,” Feierabend said.

The “safer at home” order also took effect this morning at 12:01, and according to the county Department of Health, the pandemic will be monitored and the order’s duration and any necessary changes will be determined.

Neither the state of emergency nor “safer at home” orders is criminally enforceable, but Feierabend said that wasn’t the intention.

“We don’t want to be heavy-handed,” Feierabend said.

Under the “safer at home” order, county residents must stay in their homes except for essential trips like going to the grocery store, picking up medication at the pharmacy, going to medical appointments, getting takeout from a restaurant, using a drive-thru or helping others get needed supplies. Leaving home to care for a friend or family member, exercise or walk pets are also allowed.

However, anyone engaging in those activities is asked to maintain 6 feet of space from others. Additionally, the “safer at home” order states that county residents should not go to work unless they provide an essential service, should not visit family or friends for non-emergency reasons and should not visit loved ones in hospitals or other care facilities.
​

We live in interesting times.​

That is basically the same directive we are under here in BC. They are moving toward a non-essential travel ban within the province in the attempt to prevent the spread and overwhelming small town medical resources. That would really suck if they chose to enforce that. It basically means they will not let you out of the urban areas without a real good excuse. Apparently checking on your cabin won't be one of them.

 

[meanstreak]

I see on TV last night some government officials are considering tracking people on their phone GPS to make sure they are maintaining social distancing. That is when I go old school and leave the phone at home if and when i leave the house.

 

[Ernst]

The jury is certainly still out in determining whether this COVID-19 virus was intentionally manufactured or is naturally occurring. However, there is little doubt that the responses by government officials, at all levels, is manufactured.

Neither the federal, state or local governments have the legal authority to shut down American life absent at least baseline due process. Forcing business closures, restrictions on assembly and movement, and quarantines are not constitutionally permissible under some contrived emergency doctrine that suspends in place due process requirements. We should all remember what happened immediately following 9/11 and the resulting Patriot Act which continues today to infringe on our constitutional rights. Perfect example is today's FISA overreach.

Today state and local officials claim lawful police powers to shut down their communities under state constitutions and authorizing legislation. Certain actions ensuring public health may be authorized. But now they are suspending evictions by property owners for non payment of leases, waving rent payments across the board, arbitrarily deciding what are essential services (marijuana yes, guns no), releasing prisoners from jails, and in some areas asking our neighbors to report violations. There has been even the threat of envoking marshall law! Government's at all levels should resist exercising these powers and first and foremost educate the public on good practices.

We are facing a great unknown. When this virus is conquered, and it will be, will we return to pre virus policy levels? If history is any indicator the answer is no. Governments, especially at state and local levels, are very reluctant to give up power once they've tasted it.

Who should decide what is an essential service in your community?

Will state governments simply waive education requirements this year?

Will we every again enjoy the freedom and due process granted in the constitution?

Regards

 

[cmcdonald]

The jury is certainly still out in determining whether this COVID-19 virus was intentionally manufactured or is naturally occurring. However, there is little doubt that the responses by government officials, at all levels, is manufactured.

Neither the federal, state or local governments have the legal authority to shut down American life absent at least baseline due process. Forcing business closures, restrictions on assembly and movement, and quarantines are not constitutionally permissible under some contrived emergency doctrine that suspends in place due process requirements. We should all remember what happened immediately following 9/11 and the resulting Patriot Act which continues today to infringe on our constitutional rights. Perfect example is today's FISA overreach.

Today state and local officials claim lawful police powers to shut down their communities under state constitutions and authorizing legislation. Certain actions ensuring public health may be authorized. But now they are suspending evictions by property owners for non payment of leases, waving rent payments across the board, arbitrarily deciding what are essential services (marijuana yes, guns no), releasing prisoners from jails, and in some areas asking our neighbors to report violations. There has been even the threat of envoking marshall law! Government's at all levels should resist exercising these powers and first and foremost educate the public on good practices.

We are facing a great unknown. When this virus is conquered, and it will be, will we return to pre virus policy levels? If history is any indicator the answer is no. Governments, especially at state and local levels, are very reluctant to give up power once they've tasted it.

Who should decide what is an essential service in your community?

Will state governments simply waive education requirements this year?

Will we every again enjoy the freedom and due process granted in the constitution?

Regards

Great post @Ernst
I feel the same here in Canada as do many like me. What's so insidious about all this is the media...I've heard reporter after reporter question public officials of every rank, right up to the top federal offices about why they didn't act sooner and with greater restrictions, as if that is something we are all craving for.

Some dimwit just this morning asked the Premier of Ontario about preventing people from leaving the city to go to cottage country; Premier Ford answered that Ontario is effectively twice the size of Texas or equivalent to at least 3 European countries in land mass, we don't have the manpower to shut down every possible route out and enforce it 24/7. He also said it's not impossible (read: military) but he said and rightly so, that no one wants that and he wants people to exercise their own judgment.

What is it with the media begging or egging politicians into potential crackdowns and loss of liberties? Do these media types think their own liberties won't be curtailed? Or do they expect to get a "pass" for being a mouthpiece? Troubling times when you hear so much about how further restrictions are needed, wealth to be re-distributed and so on. I'm with you, I'm not convinced life will ever quite look the same again.

 

[Ernst]

cmcdonald, to your point regarding the media. Reminds me of an observation by Mark Twain!

 

[cmcdonald]

cmcdonald, to your point regarding the media. Reminds me of an observation by Mark Twain!View attachment 22891

Amen and amen!

 

[meanstreak]

My opinion, it's worth what it costs btw, is that the president has actually resisted efforts to infringe upon our rights. The only thing holding back lower governments is their need to be able to point their fingers at Trump down the road and blame him. Now that he has not done that, the power hungry bastards are doing it themselves with the backing of the media. Then blaming Trump for not acting soon enough.

Here the mayor had a press conference yesterday. He started off by praising government officials, then chastising the citizens. Later he started talking about instituting rationing shopping days and greater enforcement of the stay at home order. I'm thinking this is going too far.

The 3 large hospitals in Tulsa all say they are ready for the worst. God forbid the worst happens and they aren't prepared, they will also be looking for someone to blame. I suppose they will look to the federal government to blame as well.

Almost every news organization has their own "experts" on every day. Most of them contradicting the CDC and FDA. The media is giving them their 15 minutes of glory as long as the contradict the administration.

Ok, that's enough rant for today from me.

 

[cmcdonald]

This article (Virus built from scratch in two weeks) was published in 2003.

https://www.nature.com/articles/news031110-17

Here is a quote from the above article.....

"The team used enzymes to glue the oligonucleotides together accurately into the complete 5,386-base genetic strand, and to copy it many times. When the synthetic viral genome was injected into bacteria, the bacterial cell's machinery read the instructions and created fully fledged viruses.

Genetically, one of the resulting virus strains was 100% identical to the natural virus, says Venter. By contrast, Wimmer's polioviruses, which were some 7,500 bases long, had to be laboriously checked for mistakes as each genetic piece was added."

I've heard it said on the news and in print that it is obvious if a virus is man-made....again, I'm no scientist but I've spun enough bull in my day and had enough spewed at me to know it when I smell it...................

 

[meanstreak]

We are entering tornado season in Oklahoma and a large part of the country as well. Last spring many parts of the country had flooding like they had never seen before. That has me thinking about different scenarios that could trigger a shtf event. We have the basic ingredients in place already. People out of work creating financial hardship not seen in 90 years in this country, people hoarding the basic products and runs on grocery stores. We have unparalleled government takeover of the populace. When they are forcing businesses to close, that in my book is a takeover.

We are in a precarious state right now.Imagine if you will gas stations running low on fuel or truckers not being able to get enough diesel. Those trucks are supplying the grocery stores, medical supplies to hospitals, basically they are the only thing keeping this country going right now.

I am not in any way in panic mode, but I am lifting my personal awareness level to places it has never been before.

 

[Ernst]

Certainly time to stay vigilant and maintain situational awareness. We live in rural, mountainous terrain and typically only encounter local folks. Over the last couple of weeks there have been an increase number, although minor, of urban folks looking for a "place to camp" to escape the city. While most have been families as the situation progresses and increased panic sets a in the mix and nature of these outsiders may change. Most areas around us are privately owned and/or inaccessible forest service property. All forest service campgrounds are closed so there really isn't an area for these folks to occupy unless they trespass on private land.

Regards

 

[John A.]

It's like that here too Ernst. There was a guy in a pawn shop last week that was trying to buy a handgun. Thing is, shop owner couldn't sell it to him because he was not a state resident (this guy was from NY).

Without missing a beat the guy told him he was "camping" and wanted something to defend his self with. So, he was asking about buying a sword when my sister left. Don't know if the shop owner sold him one or not. He probably did. But he's a little ornery too, so I don't know.

State police has ran off 3 different out of state cars parked at the end of the road up in a community near me. I have a buddy who lives close enough to throw a rock and hit the wide spot where they seem to be parking and I don't know of a time where he's ever lied to me, so I believe it.

I don't know what makes people think they can just bug out in the woods in the middle of nowhere. Ain't nobody around here want to deal with that. As soon as their cooler full of bologna and energy drinks runs out, they're going to be trying to take stuff from the locals and has a lot of them on edge and definitely more armed up than usual.

I also know a guy who lives in NC and he said all the people coming down from NY and buying $700 worth of groceries to stock their winter homes is not going well with the locals there either.

 

[Ernst]

These urbanites also have no knowledge of the animal threats they may face. We have cougars, bears, bobcats, and coyotes nearby. These folks will leave their coolers and grocery sacks in their tents or their car and wonder why a bear might come calling.

And, like John pointed out, once they run out of food they become a threat to the property owners by hunting (if they know how) or stealing things (more likely).

Be prepared!

Regards

 

[Scoop]

These urbanites also have no knowledge of the animal threats they may face...

And, like John pointed out, once they run out of food they become a threat to the property owners by hunting (if they know how) or stealing things (more likely).

 

[cmcdonald]

Bah dum pish!