“Gun Control” A question for the “old timers”

[Bathrobeman]

For those who have lived through several similar times as these, how does the current situation compare to the past? I guess what I mean is say in the ‘90’s when the assault rifle ban came about, at the time did it feel like they were pretty close to banning firearms all together? How about now, is your gut telling you that the current time is worse than what it was and what could’ve been during the Clinton era? I guess what I’m asking is, are we pretty closed to getting screwed, or will it blow over like it has in the past?
Also, how does this “ammo crisis” compare to the ones in the past? Has it surpassed the amount of time already as past ammo shortages? How long did they last in the past? How about the prices? Do y’all think that they are “marked up” more now than they were in yesteryear? For example a pre-COVID 20 rd box of 5.56x45 was something like $9 and I’ve seen that same box now is $18-$21. Did ammo cost 50% more during past shortages?

 

[meanstreak]

My personal thoughts are that this time is worse. If for no other reason than the country is so much different now, and not in a good way. The left is much farther left, the news media is more liberal than ever, and another two generations of young people have been taught that up is down, 2+2=5, and guns kill people just because they are guns.

 

[Ernst]

Not sure there's a single answer to your questions. The turmoil in the country today reminds me of the 60s when major segments of society had greatly diverse views of the world, the government, the war, socialism, and daily life in general. Back then the country was totally divided along ideological lines and old vice youth. And this divide escalated into violence which, despite a few incidents today, are nothing like the violence of the 60s. Today, we seems to have the "me" generation(s) with many folks believing they are simply owed something for nothing in return. Plus everyone seems to be looking for someone to blame for their own lack of initiative. Enough of the society rant.

Today, guns are evil and thought to be blamed for everything. To me, what has changed is parents of kids today have not introduced their kids to sports shooting or hunting. The lucky ones might have had a grandpa that took them hunting or taught them safety and respect for guns. I firmly believe the majority of folks ranting about the evils of guns, including most politicians, wouldn't know the difference between various types of guns other that that's an evil "black" gun! Suspect the vast majority have never even shot a gun! Then they wonder why the SWAT Team isn't at their door within 3 minutes of their 911 call.

Gun legislation is cyclic depending greatly on which party "believes" they are in charge. They always forget they work for us and we pay their salaries. If they were really worried about the number of folks who were killed by accidents each year they would ban cars or ban many incompetent doctors from practicing. Doctor's bury their mistakes!

In my opinion there will never be a gun free America. There are many guns in private hands for which there are no records and magazines, no matter the artificial limit on capacity, are not the issue. Training allows anyone to change out a 10, 30 or 100 round magazine quickly. Again, the vast majority doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Banning guns is like banning alcohol in the 20s and 30s. It just goes underground but still there.

Bottomline 1: Criminals don't follow the rules for purchase of weapons. Never have, never will. In my opinion, if someone commits a crime with a weapon of any type then the sentence they receive should be doubled automatically, no exceptions. This would go a long way to reducing violence.

Bottomline 2: The biggest problem regarding the availability and price of ammo in my opinion is the folks who line up each morning to buy any type of ammo that came in last night and are trying to make a quick buck on resales. No difference than a few years ago with .22 ammo. If folks quit buying for 30 days the manufactures and supply system could catch up with demand and the shelves would be full again.

Just an "old" guys opinion!

Regards

 

[Bathrobeman]

Not sure there's a single answer to your questions. The turmoil in the country today reminds me of the 60s when major segments of society had greatly diverse views of the world, the government, the war, socialism, and daily life in general. Back then the country was totally divided along ideological lines and old vice youth. And this divide escalated into violence which, despite a few incidents today, are nothing like the violence of the 60s. Today, we seems to have the "me" generation(s) with many folks believing they are simply owed something for nothing in return. Plus everyone seems to be looking for someone to blame for their own lack of initiative. Enough of the society rant.

Today, guns are evil and thought to be blamed for everything. To me, what has changed is parents of kids today have not introduced their kids to sports shooting or hunting. The lucky ones might have had a grandpa that took them hunting or taught them safety and respect for guns. I firmly believe the majority of folks ranting about the evils of guns, including most politicians, wouldn't know the difference between various types of guns other that that's an evil "black" gun! Suspect the vast majority have never even shot a gun! Then they wonder why the SWAT Team isn't at their door within 3 minutes of their 911 call.

Gun legislation is cyclic depending greatly on which party "believes" they are in charge. They always forget they work for us and we pay their salaries. If they were really worried about the number of folks who were killed by accidents each year they would ban cars or ban many incompetent doctors from practicing. Doctor's bury their mistakes!

In my opinion there will never be a gun free America. There are many guns in private hands for which there are no records and magazines, no matter the artificial limit on capacity, are not the issue. Training allows anyone to change out a 10, 30 or 100 round magazine quickly. Again, the vast majority doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Banning guns is like banning alcohol in the 20s and 30s. It just goes underground but still there.

Bottomline 1: Criminals don't follow the rules for purchase of weapons. Never have, never will. In my opinion, if someone commits a crime with a weapon of any type then the sentence they receive should be doubled automatically, no exceptions. This would go a long way to reducing violence.

Bottomline 2: The biggest problem regarding the availability and price of ammo in my opinion is the folks who line up each morning to buy any type of ammo that came in last night and are trying to make a quick buck on resales. No difference than a few years ago with .22 ammo. If folks quit buying for 30 days the manufactures and supply system could catch up with demand and the shelves would be full again.

Just an "old" guys opinion!

Regards

I’m with you on the ammo thing. It was nice when you could walk in a store leisurely to grab a box before a shooting outing.
What about this. Say they ban AR15 type guns. Do y’all think that would mean that a guy could get arrested for bringing one to the gun range or if a game warden stopped by the campsite? Or do y’all think it would be more like a you could no longer purchase one type of deal?

 

[Ernst]

I’m with you on the ammo thing. It was nice when you could walk in a store leisurely to grab a box before a shooting outing.
What about this. Say they ban AR15 type guns. Do y’all think that would mean that a guy could get arrested for bringing one to the gun range or if a game warden stopped by the campsite? Or do y’all think it would be more like a you could no longer purchase one type of deal?

Banning the "sale" of AR-15s and a host of other evil guns on their wish list is one thing but ridding the country of all these weapons is, in my opinion, impossible. They may restrict imports of things like AK-47s and foreign made ammo but unlikely they will do anything regarding the current number of weapons in private hands vice implementing a so called "buy back program"! A program using our taxpayer money to "buyback" something the government never owned.

Private shooting ranges can implement their own rules so it's hard to know if they will become the next MLB, Delta or Coke!

But look at the states today. There is little condenses on these national issues. Marijuana is a perfect example. Federal law says it's illegal but a majority of the states ignore it. I suspect many states, like most people, will ignore gun control legislation.

Regards

 

[Bobster]

For those who have lived through several similar times as these, how does the current situation compare to the past?

Very good points made by the others above. I was around for AWB '94 and it was a joke. Guns were made without "features" such as flash hiders, bayonet lugs, had 10rd mags, etc. It did absolutely nothing to deter crime or criminals and was rightfully allowed to sunset. I recall Clitton went on vacation which postponed his signing of the bill and it was estimated that a million hi-cap mags a day were being produced while he was vacationing. Everything pre-ban was grandfathered in and you could still get hi-cap mags to fit newer guns that only came with a 10rd. Pre-ban guns and mags were sold at a premium but not crazy.

Then there was Nobama and the Sandy Hook shooting. Hi-cap mag and ammo prices went up and supply went down, but within a year or so all was back to "normal". Fortunately, Republicans had control of the Senate and the House and any AWB bills quickly died on the vine.

Then some more various shootings and knee-jerking legislation in affected states such as my home of FL. The MSD bill is an onerous POS signed by then gubna, Senator **** Scott. Specifically the "red flag" bits and raising gun owning age to 21. If the FBI had done their job it never would have happened. And if the officer wasn't a coward, the death toll could have been far lower. Why this or ANY mass-murderer still lives is beyond me--they should be promptly tortured to death, then names scrubbed from history.

The current situation is very volatile because the Presidency and Senate were stolen, evidence destroyed and a complicit slimedia gaslighting election result non-believers. This was a worst-case scenario for gun owners. As mentioned, if the gougers stopped buying, supply would catch up, demand would drop as would prices. But uncertainty and potential taxation have people stocking up. Gun prices seem to be going down possibly because of ammo availability or market glut?

With an estimated 75,000,000 gun owners in the US and FIVE times as many guns, it will be impossible to confiscate ("buy back") even a mere 10%. Plus, with many patriotic curmudgeons unhappy with the election, some may decide they have lived a good life and would like to go out in a blaze of glory hoping to save our republic. Meaning, political security could become the most lethal job in America...

PS: Marijauna should be moved to Schedule III (accepted medical use) from Schedule I (no medical use).

PPS: if they want to ban something that kills millions of people a year they should ban alcohol and tobacco. But lobbyi$t$ are paying off politicians to keep them legal and MJ "illegal".

 

[John A.]

The difference between then and now, a lot more people cared then and followed their laws.

Now, many of those same people that followed their laws then are ready to spit on their hands, raise the black flag and tell them to get bent.

It's all make believe and bread and circuses at this point, regardless of how pretty of a picture they are trying to paint. Many people can look outside of their windows and see Rome burning.

And for those that see it, are not going to disarm themselves. That would just be stupid.

Prior to '94, gun control was a hot topic. You couldn't turn on the TV without their collaberated psy-ops lying and trying to convince everyone how bad it is on every channel.

Much like today.

It's the socialists wet dream to disarm America so their takeover will be easier for them.

 

[Scoop]

For those who have lived through several similar times as these, how does the current situation compare to the past? I guess what I mean is say in the ‘90’s when the assault rifle ban came about, at the time did it feel like they were pretty close to banning firearms all together? How about now, is your gut telling you that the current time is worse than what it was and what could’ve been during the Clinton era? I guess what I’m asking is, are we pretty closed to getting screwed, or will it blow over like it has in the past?...

I'll give you my impressions about the 1994-2004 years as I can remember them.
After my Army discharge, I did not get back into shooting until late 1997 when I got 2 pistols from my fathers estate. Just for fun I went to an indoor range to try them out and I met a couple of IPSC shooters there who were interested in the old Colt 1911 I was shooting. They told me enough about "practical" pistol competitions that I joined them the next week at an indoor evening competition.

I liked that enough that I started shooting matches indoors and outdoors about 5 times a month. At one evening shoot I borrowed a G30 and a week later I bought my own with 10 mags. All 10-round cap. I shot that Glock and my 2nd G30 in IPSC, IDPA, GSSF and 3-Gun competition for 20 years.

In the late '90s I was never inconvenienced by the AWB and ammo was readily available. I'd buy 2000 rounds at a time from Cheaper Than Dirt for about $150 / K.

The only mags over 10 rounds I bought were 4 orange 13-round LE .45 Glock mags that fit my G30s. They were on sale at a Glock Sport Shooting Foundation competition for $25 apiece. The 10-rounders at that time sold between $17 and $19 I think.

I thought I would be interested in buying or building or buying something on the AR platform. A lot of the competition rifles were AR or AK platforms. But, to tell you the truth, after listening to the infinite options to choose from I decided to keep shooting my M-1 Garand.

There was a lot of complaining about the AWB, but everybody I know then seemed to have all the guns and affordable ammo they needed.

I bought guns at pawn shops, gun stores, and gun shows. Sold or traded guns at shops, stores, and shows. Made-person to-person transfers. One time I won a Colt .25 pistol and the owner shipped it to one of my FFL friends. I filled out 4473 forms for some of those.

The AWB sunset-expired in 2004. I always had guns and ammo available. That was 20-some years ago. I expect the current proposal will not be as easy to live with.

My present situation is:
I am not going to buy any more guns.
I am not going to compete.
I am not going to buy ammo. Got plenty for an old timer.
I am not going to practice as much.
I am not going to give my guns up to confiscation.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

REGISTRATION = CONFISCATION

 

[Bathrobeman]

I'll give you my impressions about the 1994-2004 years as I can remember them.
After my Army discharge, I did not get back into shooting until late 1997 when I got 2 pistols from my fathers estate. Just for fun I went to an indoor range to try them out and I met a couple of IPSC shooters there who were interested in the old Colt 1911 I was shooting. They told me enough about "practical" pistol competitions that I joined them the next week at an indoor evening competition.

I liked that enough that I started shooting matches indoors and outdoors about 5 times a month. At one evening shoot I borrowed a G30 and a week later I bought my own with 10 mags. All 10-round cap. I shot that Glock and my 2nd G30 in IPSC, IDPA, GSSF and 3-Gun competition for 20 years.

In the late '90s I was never inconvenienced by the AWB and ammo was readily available. I'd buy 2000 rounds at a time from Cheaper Than Dirt for about $150 / K.

The only mags over 10 rounds I bought were 4 orange 13-round LE .45 Glock mags that fit my G30s. They were on sale at a Glock Sport Shooting Foundation competition for $25 apiece. The 10-rounders at that time sold between $17 and $19 I think.

I thought I would be interested in buying or building or buying something on the AR platform. A lot of the competition rifles were AR or AK platforms. But, to tell you the truth, after listening to the infinite options to choose from I decided to keep shooting my M-1 Garand.

There was a lot of complaining about the AWB, but everybody I know then seemed to have all the guns and affordable ammo they needed.

I bought guns at pawn shops, gun stores, and gun shows. Sold or traded guns at shops, stores, and shows. Made-person to-person transfers. One time I won a Colt .25 pistol and the owner shipped it to one of my FFL friends. I filled out 4473 forms for some of those.

The AWB sunset-expired in 2004. I always had guns and ammo available. That was 20-some years ago. I expect the current proposal will not be as easy to live with.

My present situation is:
I am not going to buy any more guns.
I am not going to compete.
I am not going to buy ammo. Got plenty for an old timer.
I am not going to practice as much.
I am not going to give my guns up to confiscation.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

REGISTRATION = CONFISCATION

How you described the current situation stinks because that pretty much makes them for “just in case,” and you can’t really enjoy them. It’s hard to keep a stash. Used to I would have plenty of ammo for “just in case” that I wouldn’t shoot and I’d just go buy a few boxes when I planned on shooting. Now when I go shoot I feel like I’m “wasting valuable resources” every time I squeeze the trigger. They’ve taken the fun out of it. It’s not even the Gov at this point. It’s the panic hoarders that are plundering and pillaging Academy every Thursday.

 

[Tom396]

What I have seen, so far, actually has very little to do with "gun control" and everything to do with more Americans seeing the light. The firearm shortage, and particularly, the ammo shortage is due to so many Americans finally getting around to purchasing a firearm. They bought those firearms and discovered they had to feed them. Frankly, I can't blame those new gun owners. They simply don't know any better. Whatever price is out there, they are going to pay it. And because of this, I also don't see this price/availability crisis ending anytime soon. And that makes it different from previous shortages. I believe this one may go on for a very, very long time. Take care. Tom Worthington

 

[Scoop]

How you described the current situation stinks because that pretty much makes them for “just in case,” and you can’t really enjoy them. ...

Right you are.
My "entertainment" is that every 90 days I am Range Officer at Sheriff Office firearms qualification. I shoot the courses, even the ones for the machineguns. They supply the ammo.

 

[Ernst]

How you described the current situation stinks because that pretty much makes them for “just in case,” and you can’t really enjoy them. It’s hard to keep a stash. Used to I would have plenty of ammo for “just in case” that I wouldn’t shoot and I’d just go buy a few boxes when I planned on shooting. Now when I go shoot I feel like I’m “wasting valuable resources” every time I squeeze the trigger. They’ve taken the fun out of it. It’s not even the Gov at this point. It’s the panic hoarders that are plundering and pillaging Academy every Thursday.

Obviously don't know what weapons you have or quantity of ammo available. While I totally agree you should maintain a cache to meet anticipated operational needs training is vitally important. However, your training drills can be accomplished utilizing a variety of weapons from a .22 rifle, to a shotgun, or with an AR-15. In fact, I firmly believe you should vary your training weapons. No single weapon is best for all scenarios you might encounter. Bottomline: utilize the weapon for which you have spare ammo or don't plan to use as your primary go to weapon.

If your down to bare minimums of ammo then utilize dry fire still. These drills work extremely well in home defense scenarios, room clearing tactics or CQB. You can make dummy rounds for shotguns at virtually no cost using spent hulls and a can of expansion foam. They cycle well in pump guns.

The other thing you might try is reloading. Certainly understand the current shortage of primers and powder but reloading can be a great money saver and provide ammo in scarce times. Reloading shotshells is especially easy. My homemade shotshell reloading tools costs less than $10. Reloading supplies are returning and you can even use black powder which is still available most places. Not the cleanest thing to use in shotguns but it works. We even had a forum discussion earlier on reloading spent primers.

Good luck!

 

[Bathrobeman]

Obviously don't know what weapons you have or quantity of ammo available. While I totally agree you should maintain a cache to meet anticipated operational needs training is vitally important. However, your training drills can be accomplished utilizing a variety of weapons from a .22 rifle, to a shotgun, or with an AR-15. In fact, I firmly believe you should vary your training weapons. No single weapon is best for all scenarios you might encounter. Bottomline: utilize the weapon for which you have spare ammo or don't plan to use as your primary go to weapon.

If your down to bare minimums of ammo then utilize dry fire still. These drills work extremely well in home defense scenarios, room clearing tactics or CQB. You can make dummy rounds for shotguns at virtually no cost using spent hulls and a can of expansion foam. They cycle well in pump guns.

The other thing you might try is reloading. Certainly understand the current shortage of primers and powder but reloading can be a great money saver and provide ammo in scarce times. Reloading shotshells is especially easy. My homemade shotshell reloading tools costs less than $10. Reloading supplies are returning and you can even use black powder which is still available most places. Not the cleanest thing to use in shotguns but it works. We even had a forum discussion earlier on reloading spent primers.

Good luck!

Thanks man.

 

[CaddmannQ]

This is like every instance of prohibition in history.

People with money can get anything they need on the black or gray market. People with less money can still get something.

And because people will be servicing the market, at each level, I think we will see a return of the Saturday night specials.

And even further down the food chain, I imagine people will be building a lot of zip guns, muzzle loaders, and slam fires, along with other technically undemanding constructions.