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Cleaning?

Uncle Chester

Copper BB
I just bought a 500 Persuader. This is my first firearm outside of handguns. I use gun cleaner/degreaser on my handguns when they are new and after every time after the range. Followed by a new coat of CLP. When I got my Persuader home I did the same. Cleaned with my same products to get all the factory grease off etc. Well the results are not the same. My handguns look fresh out of the box when I get done. The persuader looked clean but didn't have the same luster. Should I use other products for the Persuader? Also wanted to buy a flash light and red dot....any thoughts on brands and models in a reasonable price range. Thanks!
 
Welcome to Mossberg Owners Forum! I personally use Hoppe's gun cleaning kit for my shotguns and it does a really good job keeping them looking new. So I would see nothing wrong with you using the same kit that you do for your handguns. What finish is your mossberg 500 persuader? That may be why its not having the same luster as your handguns after cleaning. As for the light and laser; 1.) Insight M6X 2.) Streamlight TLR-2 3.) Viridian X5L 4.) SureFire X400. All 4 of those options are good but each has some positives and negatives like with anything. A lot will depend on your budget when choosing one. I personally like the Streamlight TLR-2.
 
It's a Matte finish. Not to bug you either but one more question I bought Federal Premium 3" magnum 15 pellet 00 buck. Good for home defense? Or would you buy something else? Thanks for the light info!
 
Yea the matte finish doesn't ever seem to have a luster too it from my experience with them. As for the home defense ammo; there is a lot of debate as to which ammo should be used. I added a good link with information on choosing the right home defense ammo for your shotgun. Keep the questions coming if you have them. We are here to help each other out and grow as a community!

http://www.internetarmory.com/shotgun_ammo.htm
SHOTGUN AMMUNITION:
SELF DEFENSE


The shotgun is, by far, the deadliest and most formidable, effective firearm ever created for short range personal defense. No other firearm will devastate, disable, or discourage an aggressor as reliably as a shotgun. No other firearm is as likely to hit an assailant as a "scattergun" loaded with buckshot.

Shotgun ammunition consists of three general types:

Buckshot Load: A shotgun shell loaded with large diameter lead balls. It is used for big game hunting and for self defense. For a standard 2-3/4-inch shell in 12 gauge, the number of balls or pellets ranges from eight .36-inch balls in "000 buck" to 27 .24-inch balls in "# 4 buck". Please note that "000 buck" is pronounced "triple ought buck" and "00 buck" is pronounced "double ought buck", not "zero zero zero buck" or "oh oh buck". Again, it's tradition. Avoid being ridiculed as a peasant.
Birdshot load: A shotgun shell loaded with small diameter pellets used for hunting game birds and waterfowl. Stopping power is poor, except when used at close range, out to 20-30 feet or so. It is only recommended for personal defense in the home, when adjacent properties might be affected by the use of buckshot loads.

Rifted Slug Load: A shotgun shell loaded with a solid lead bullet. Slugs are huge hunks of soft lead, grooved on the sides to promote rotation and stability in flight. They have enormous stopping capability. Because slug loads must be carefully aimed like a rifle or handgun, their use ruins the shotgun's main advantage: superior hit probability.
In spite of the propensity for pellets or balls in a fired shotgun shell to expand rapidly with distance traveled, producing a "pattern", shotguns still must be skillfully aimed and fired. The benefit of the shotgun is its ability to produce likely hits on an attacker, coupled with its incomparable stopping power.

The term "gauge" is an antiquated, hence traditional, method of measurement. It refers to the number of lead balls, each equal in diameter to the bore of the shotgun barrel, that it would take to equal one pound. The larger the gauge number, the smaller the bore diameter of the barrel, because it would take more lead balls equal to the bore diameter to equal one pound. The exception is the .410 shotgun (pronounced "four ten"), which is actually the bore diameter expressed in hundredths of an inch, in a manner similar to handgun and rifle calibers.

Recommendations regarding preferred shotgun ammunition for self defense follow.

.410 Gauge:
One Shot Stopping Success: Data Not Available
Recommended Cartridges:

Federal "Classic" slug 88 grains
Winchester "Super X" slug 88 grains
This weak caliber is not really a decent self defense round, even when loaded with slugs. Never use birdshot.

20 Gauge:
One Shot Stopping Success: Data Not Available
Recommended Cartridges:

Federal "Classic" 3-inch #2 buckshot 18 pellets
Winchester "Double XX" 3-inch #3 buckshot 24 pellets
Remington 2-3/4-inch #3 buckshot 20 pellets

The 20 gauge is an excellent caliber for self defense. It is particularly well suited to those of smaller stature and those that dislike the blast and recoil of the 12 gauge. When compared to a 12 gauge, the 20 gauge delivers 75% of the lead with a recoil that is 40-50% less. This is equivalent to the ballistic force of being hit with two .44 Magnum rounds simultaneously. Reduced recoil of the 20 gauge is conducive to accurate, rapid shots.

For close-in home defense situations, birdshot might work, but its use is not preferred. Recommended shells include #4, BB, or larger hunting loads. Fill the balance of the magazine with #3 buckshot for insurance, due its proven ability to penetrate. Buckshot is preferred over birdshot and slug use in the 20 gauge. For those who insist on slugs, use Federal "Classic" rifled slugs. Effective slug use requires careful aiming with a shotgun equipped with rifle sights. Few 20 gauge shotguns are so equipped.

16 Gauge:
One Shot Stopping Success: Data Not Available
Recommended Cartridges:

Federal "Classic" #1 buckshot
Winchester "Super X" #1 buckshot

This round has never gained popularity in the United States. For those who may own a sporting shotgun in this caliber, put it to work as a great self defense weapon.

12 Gauge:
One Shot Stopping Success: 81-96% (Actual)
Recommended Cartridges:

Federal "Tactical" 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 96%
Remington "Magnum" 3-inch 00 buck 94%
Winchester 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 94%
Federal 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 89%
Remington 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 88%

The 12 gauge shotgun is the most devastating and lethal weapon yet devised for inflicting rack and ruin at close range. A safe bet for ammunition selection is to use the 2-3/4-inch 00 buckshot load. The impact of one of these shot shells is essentially equivalent to getting hit with a nine round burst from a submachine gun.

It is probably a good idea to avoid the 2-3/4- and 3-inch "Magnum" loads. Their brutal kick makes them a bad choice, and little is gained over the stopping power of standard rounds. Controllability is important, and standard 12 gauge shotgun shells have plenty of kick already.

Some shooters prefer #4 or #1 buckshot over 00 buck. Real world one shot stopping success of the #4 buck is a respectable 81-83%. Data hasn't been collected for the #1 buck, but its performance should be even better.

The one ounce slug, fired from a 2-3/4-inch Federal, Remington, or Winchester shell, has a one shot stopping success of 98%. A deer barrel with rifle sights is the appropriate platform for this round. It is not the best choice for self defense because aiming becomes the critical factor in effective shot placement. The high probability of scoring hits, an advantage associated with buckshot loads, is lost. Slugs also have ferocious recoil and tend to over penetrate.

Although birdshot is not as lethal as buckshot, even at close range, it may make sense for home or apartment defense where the opportunity exists to injure or kill innocent people behind thin walls in adjacent rooms. For defending a single family home, buffered by land, 00 buck is preferred. The choice for birdshot loads is BB or #4 birdshot. Out to a range of 30 feet or so, birdshot is essentially a solid column of lead pellets. Stopping power may not be sufficient, however, due lack of penetration potential.

At close range, birdshot can destroy a great deal of tissue, producing a gruesome wound. The depth of the injury, however, will likely be six inches or less. This is too shallow to reliably affect an assailant's heart or major cardiovascular blood vessels. Because the wound trauma produced by birdshot is not decisively effective, a quick stop to deadly violence is not guaranteed.

Buckshot loads, on the other hand, will exhibit penetration on the order of 12 inches or so, a depth sufficient to intersect vital blood distribution structures and terminate aggression.

Some misconceptions may exist regarding the spread of shotgun pellets or balls. It is not enough to merely point the shotgun in the general direction of an assailant and let fly. Birdshot or buckshot does not create a huge cone of death and destruction that devastates everything in its path. Rather, for a defense or "riot" shotgun with an 18- to 20-inch open choked "improved cylinder" barrel, the pellets will spread out about one inch for every yard of range traveled. Across a large room of 18 feet or so, the spread will only be about 6 inches, a circle as big as a coffee cup saucer. At 50 feet, the spread will only be about 16 inches, the size of a large pizza. It is obvious from this information that a shotgun blast will not incapacitate multiple assailants at close range.

The shotgun must be skillfully aimed and fired. Aiming is just not quite as precise as that required for a handgun or autoloader to score multiple hits on an aggressor. The massive firepower of the shotgun will likely produce a favorable outcome in any self defense encounter.

10 Gauge:
One Shot Stopping Success: Data Not Available
Recommended Cartridges:

For this "cannon", anything.
 
Turkey shot is a cheaper alternative to buckshot, although I have never used it personally I have seen what it can do to an individual at 10'. It's not pretty and he didn't live.
 
as for cleaning and lube, I prefer 10w30 motor oil. Just a couple drops is needed. Your shotgun/handgun/rifle is a small hand-held machine. I will not use CLP on my weapon, as I've seen what happens if to much is used.
 
I haven't personally used motor oil on my gun yet but I have certainly heard people have success with it. Thanks for posting it up.
 
I clean mine as soon as I get home from the range/field, and once in a while just because I'm bored. I usually use my Otis tactical gun care kit but instead of the solvent/lube they supply I use Hoppes #9 just cause I like the smell. :D
 
Uncle Chester said:
I bought Federal Premium 3" magnum 15 pellet 00 buck. Good for home defense? Or would you buy something else?
I would buy something else. 3" 00 while having more pellets than a round of 2-3/4" 00 usually won't pattern as well and recoils a lot more. What that recoil does is slows down your follow-up shots. I generally don't worry about what round has a higher percentage of "one shot stops". I find the idea of focusing on a one shot stop to be dangerous due to the fact that if you believe all it will take is one shot to stop the bad guy you may not be ready with a follow up shot when that first one doesn't stop him. Federal 00 buckshot with a flitecontrol wad or Hornady TAP are what I recommend for a defensive load. The low recoil versions of both are very effective rounds that have a soft enough recoil to allow you to put multiple rounds on target very quickly.

Bird shot is for birds. Even turkey loads. Birdshot may kill someone but it won't reliably instantly stop them which is what the goal of a defensive shooting should be. It doesn't do you any good to kill someone if they have time to kill you back before they die. That is why the idea is to stop the offender rather than kill them. Buckshot will much more reliably stop them RIGHT NOW.

The FBI has established a testing protocol for ammunition intended to be used against people. Through their testing and research they have determined that in order for a round to be a reliably effective fight stopper it needs to penetrate at least 12" in ballistic gelatin. Buckshot is the only shot that reliably makes it to at least 12". #4 Buckshot only barely makes it and not all the time. 00 Buckshot does it reliably and with a flitecontrol wad as loaded by Federal or Hornady (Hornady calls it something else) all the pellets will be close together when they hit. #1 Buckshot appears to be ideal for defensive use but is not as readily available as 00 and isn't available in a tight patterning load.
 
I'm with Johnny on this one. There is more on this in the ammunition section, ballistic test results in gelatin with several types of loads from a couple different bbl lengths. I referenced sources from Shotgunworld. I know overpenetration is a concern, but something that doesnt reliably penetrate deep enough, wont reliably be a threat stopper either. If over penetration concerns you, please consider and keep in mind, a shotgun DOES need to be aimed, and shots carefully placed. You wont be spraying lead, and buckshot from a gun isnt like "Puff the magic Dragon", "Spooky" or the Specter gun ship putting a round in every square inch of a football field. There is no substitute for trigger time and patterning rounds and selecting an appropriate shell. Federal Flightcontrol in reduced recoil 2 3/4" shells pattern very well, and at HD ranges should put every pellet on target in center mass.

I know the debate will continue, and we should maybe branch this off into the ammo section...

But we're talking about cleaning here... I have heard about using motor oil and I'm intrigued by this. At first I thought someone had said it jokingly, not intending for motor oil to actually be used, but I have since heard others talk about it and someone even said they get a lifetime supply of gun lubricant for like $5... I typically use Hoppes and Rem oil. I dont clean my guns after each use, (I know, I'm a bad gun owner. bad, bad. Bad gun owner.) unless we're in the rain. Other wise, after every couple or few times out. I do clean them out of the box cuz Mossbergs cosmoline treatment is HEAVY and sticky. I dont like the idea of powder and residue building up in that crap. So I clean before I shoot a gun the first time, and then after the first time. After that, periodically.
 
I would not use a drop of motor oil on any of my shotguns unless I ran out of Breakfree CLP or FP 10, which will not happen! Up here in the winter motor oil will make any semi-auto into an instant single shot, and a pump slow and gummy. It is too heavy in even warm weather, in my opinion, and an absolute nightmare in the cold. I'm talking 10 to -10 degrees farenheit. It is made for car engines, after all. Good gun products don't cause these headaches.
 
Neanderthal said:
I would not use a drop of motor oil on any of my shotguns unless I ran out of Breakfree CLP or FP 10, which will not happen! Up here in the winter motor oil will make any semi-auto into an instant single shot, and a pump slow and gummy. It is too heavy in even warm weather, in my opinion, and an absolute nightmare in the cold. I'm talking 10 to -10 degrees farenheit. It is made for car engines, after all. Good gun products don't cause these headaches.

Youre absolutely right. Since posting that I've reconsidered. I've used motor oil to lube a couple of my padlocks. As it got cold, they gummed up and wouldnt open. Theres no way I'd put motor oil on my gun after that. ;)

So yeah, there are plenty of other very good products. Use those! ;)
 
I happen to use hoppes no 9 for cleaning because I bought a big bottle of it and it serves for handguns, rifles, and shotguns. It is also less toxic than some of the alternatives.

For lubrication, I use CLP. However, posts on other sites have suggested SINTHETIC motor oil. I`m a big believer in this oil for my vehicles, so when I run out of clp I will give it a try. Cost wise it looks lkie a winner, plus I always have a partial can laying around. Both areas where I live during the course of the year are warm to hot, so I don`t have to worry about cold weather problems.

I also you very small quantities of gun grease theat I bought from Brownells, but this is mostly for semi-auto handguns which are more tempramental the slide shotguns.
 
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