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New to Shotguns: HD Platform Design

W

WGP

Copper BB
Hello, everyone. I'm new to shotguns and looking for a home defense shotgun. I have done some research and have decided to go to the experts for advice. This shotgun will be used by myself and my wife ONLY for HD. I'm not sure how to go about getting the configuration I want at the best price. Here is what I am considering. Any advice is welcome!

PLATFORM
Mossberg 500
12 Gauge
20" Barrel
8-Rounds
Bead Sight (Don't think I need Ghost Sights for HD)
Matte Black Finish (If possible)

ACCESSORIES
Blackhawk Knoxx Gen II Recoil Reducing Stock
Some type of tactical light (Either built into the forearm or attached with a clamp to the barrel)

I have looked at Mossberg's website, Academy Sports, and other websites but cannot figure out the best way to build this shotgun. Since I want to change the stock and forearm, what would be the most cost effective way to go?

Thanks for your help!

WGP
 
#1 welcome to MO!
#2 do you own a german pointer?
#3 if you want advice from experts whyh did you come here? :lol: just kidin, just kiddin...

So the firearm would be the 500 Persuader 20" with a matte finish which does exist! However, due to OFMs new site layout I don't know how to find it, but I believe its listed as a special purpose model.

The stock may be found on amazon for a decent price, I recently discovering that I like the ATI Talon stock though it isn't designed as a recoil reducing stock thought the grip and recoil pad are designed to absorb much of the energy transfer of the recoil. There may even be someone on here with a Knoxx stock for sale, you can check our classified section. Possibly Ebay too.

My personal feelings regarding pistol grip stocks on Mossbergs is that I don't prefer them only due to placement of the safety and action release, though there are a number of folks here who use them and say with a little practice manipulation of the mechanics can easily be accomplished. Because of my preference I use a Hogue short length of pull and the reduction of felt recoil comes from standing square behind the gun.

The forend with the light can be the most expensive part. Your options there include the Surefire or EOTech Insight. It would almost certainly cost less to purchase a mount like the Laserlyte trirail or CDM Gear BMT or similar mounts and then go with something like a Streamlight Polytac or TLR for example. There are many others out there. I use a CDM Gear clamp with a 3 slot rail and mounted a Coast Products TX40 with momentary on tailcap switch as far forward as I could get it on my 590A1 and then switched the tail cap to a remote tape switch ran to my forend. The reason for havin the light as far forward as possible is to reduce shadows cast by the muzzle, the distance from the forend also necessitates the need for the remote switch to activate it.

When using a light (or simply considering one) keep in mind the light isn't for navigating in the dark or in low light. Its to be able to ID what you may intend to shoot. Whether or not the bump in the night is a friend or foe, a loved one or threat.

I think a bead sight is fine for HD, but can be difficult to point at a target in low light or no light. For me, this meant gettin a tritium night sight. There are a number of these available, but I went with Meprolight. This is another topic we have a decent bit of info on already and should come up in a quick search of the site with the search feature at the top right corner of the page.

Don't forget to take your choice of ammo into consideration for your HD plan, practice aand see what needs to be changed first, but chances are, switching the stock to a more comfortable length of pull for both you and your wife will make a noticable difference in feel and ease of use as the factory LOP is rediculous at 14" +. One of guys had suggested that the factory LOP may have been designed around pro NBA players...

The least expensive way to do it may be to do one piece at a time, or to search and shop around for the best deals and get combined shipping. Watch for sales commin up for the holiday shoppin season. You may find coupon codes for %'s off and or for free shipping. There are a lot of places and choices to purchase from.

#1 piece of advice, practice practice practice. Gadgetry will never equal competency, nor will it be a surogate for practice. Know your firearm like you know the curves of ... uh, your hand.
 
Well, I am a noob, by no means an expert.
I know it does not meet all your criteria, but this is what I bought for HD.
http://www.mossberg.com/product/sho...al-purpose-tactical-light-forend-6-shot/51415
It is the 590A1 with the light in the forend from the factory. I know you said you wanted a 20" barrel, this one has the 18.5".
I got it through my local dealer at a gun show for 5 bills.
So far, I am in love with this gun.
I did add the Limbsaver pad before I ever took it out to the range Found it very comfortable to shoot.
Good luck. The guys and gals on this forum are great, full of knowledge.

Bill
 
Just a heads-up on the Gen II Knoxx SpecOps stocks,

The only posts we've seen here on the forum regarding the Gen II models have been along these lines...

Another broken Gen II

As I recall, one of our members went through two of the Gen II models with snapped off pistol grips before giving up. I have the Gen I model and it's been running strong since day one, but even if someone gave me a Gen II for free I wouldn't trust it for anything other than a paperweight...
 
I looked at Mossberg's website and cannot find the Persuader models. Did they change the name? I was able to find the 18.5" barrel model in matte finish, but not the 20" barrel. I only found that one in blue finish. It is very possible I am not looking in the correct place...man they have a lot of models! I looked at the 590 with the light in the forend. How is the quality of the light? I was looking at the Surefire light, only because it says it is a bright 500 lums and somehow "directs" the beam into a straight shot.

As far as the sights go...what should I buy my Mossberg with if I decided to go with a Trijicon or something else that compares? Would a laser sight work well with a flashlight, or do you use the flashlight by itself?

I apologize if none of this makes sense, lol. I am new to the gun world. :mrgreen:
 
WGP said:
As far as the sights go...what should I buy my Mossberg with if I decided to go with a Trijicon or something else that compares? Would a laser sight work well with a flashlight, or do you use the flashlight by itself?

I apologize if none of this makes sense, lol. I am new to the gun world. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Trijicon or meprolight, or any other type of night sight. All of them are pretty equal. I think most of us here who have upgraded have used the meprolight. My only downfall with it is that it glows on both sides, and I used a black sharpie marker to cover up the front glow of it.

It's made that way so in daylight it's easier to see the bead, but I think totally contradicts the purpose of a night sight. :roll: And why the black marker is necessary.

And I agree, a simple bead style is what I would prefer over a peep signt. Especially in the dark.

The way a weapon light on a shotgun works (whether surefire, or whatever brand), most home defense shooting would be done at very close range. For instance, look at the longest shot you could take in your house, and then look at the shortest shot you would take.

usually, is between 8 feet and up to about 35 feet if you do have a long shot with the way your house is laid out.

Anyway, such close proximity, if you have the the weapon light beam solidly on a targets center mass, the odds are very high in your favor that you are going to hit that target. And thus they old saying "if it's lit, it's hit".

But again, learn how to use the weapon light. You don't want it on all the time. You may as well just walk through the house turning light switches on.

There is a certain technique to using weapon lights. Use the light as few times as needed, and all the time when it is necessary.

You can temporarily blind the intruder giving you the upper hand if he doesn't see you coming, and as has been said earlier, identify friend/foe.

And when you tell them to get down on the ground, stealth is a memory, so you can keep the target lit up if needed until the police get there to free you from having to take your eyes off of them for a second to manuever or turn on a light, and as I discussed, the light is going to help you aim and more importantly, God forbid if you have to pull the trigger, that you can in a lot better environment than being in darkness.

PS. I don't like laser sights on guns. The weapon light serves more than one purpose, and the laser adds nothing that a light doesn't already do.
 
My Meprolight is lit on the one side only, the other side is part of the aluminum housing.

I don't much care for lasers either, though it is possible to set it up to some degree of accuracy. Not likely to work the way it would in the grip of a pistol or mounted on a rifle.

Here's the thing with an HD shotgun. The more you add to it, the more complicated it becomes, the more fine motor skills it requiers to function. This is what for me dictates the location of the pressure switch for the light, where my fingers naturally fall when I grip the forend for example. Additionally, the more that's on there, the more that can fail.

In any case, you can add to it what ever you like, though I would advise taking the time to shoot it first and get to know it then add to it as you find a need to do so. Don't get sucked into believing you have to have all kinds of stuff on there to be able to defend your home.

Ill tell you a little story. My mother in law grabs an old Stevens 16 ga single shot breech load before she picks up anything else. She uses it often on the farm and keeps shells sittin ready on the way through the barn. She's dispatched more than a few predators and varmints with it. She has a rather new Remington express, but she doesn't pick it up much at all.

Moral of the story, it doesn't have to be built to meet the needs of teir one operators, it just has to meet your needs at home, which may well be a shorter or adjustable stock, a light and upgraded bead sight. Couldn't say for sure until you and your wife each try goin through the house with and learn the handling characteristics.
 
I tried searching OFMs site with no luck. I also checked out your link for the 500s and saw on the first page, a pistol grip model with the lighted forend and a Persuader model with both the pistol grip and stock which I believe is a matte finish.

The lighted forend model is 441 and the Persuader is 330.
 
I'm a relative newbie to shotguns, but have a long experience with firearms and tactical shooting. I start from the fact that HD is NOT combat. HD is that home invader/burglar/whatever in the middle of the night, inside the house, when he's awake and you're at least half asleep. So, what you want is simplicity and ease. If you have time to get the weapon out and pointed at him, that's the first half done. If you can fire while it's pointed at him, that's the other half.

I don't see the need for a 20" barrel. Seems to me that six rounds ought to be enough to defend against any credible home threat, and the 18.5 is handier. Second (oooo, I gonna get in trouble now), I don't think a 12 gauge is necessary...20 gauge is lighter, easier to handle, less recoil, and will put down anything that will fit through the doors of most homes. Finally, I'd stay away from trick stocks. Folding/adjustable/pistol grips can fail, slip, and be in the way of getting to the safety and the action release. They aren't easier to handle, more accurate, or more stable. BTW, although every bit of this runs counter to prevailing wisdom, many of the top experts on security weapons agree with me, including Massad Ayoob.

I got my Mossberg for HD only as well. here it is:

mossberg.jpg

20 gauge, factory stock in synthetic. I picked it up for $200 at a local pawn shop, and changed out the barrel for another $70. I mounted a WLS-1000 light on it...they run about $30 on eBay, install easily, and work quite well. The sling is just so I can have my hands free to carry targets etc when I walk out back to do my monthly proficiency practice....and the proficiency is 20X more important than what sight, light, stock, or barrel you have.
 
Great info! Thanks, everyone! For the light, which brand/set up do you suggest? Here's another question: What do you think about a 20 gauge for HD? If the Blackhawk Knoxx stocks are garbage, would it be better to go to a 20 gauge for my wife due to the recoil? Or, will the 12 gauge low-recoil loads be sufficient to lessen the kick?
 
Just to clarify,

The Gen 2 Knoxx stocks are garbage, but the original models are solid and still available. I run the Gen 1 on my 590 and have never had an issue with it. It does a fantastic job of mitigating recoil, but as others have stated the pistol grip does interfere with operation of the action release and safety. My 590 is set up as a range gun, so having to adjust my grip for the action release is not a big deal when I've got all the time in the world to take a shot.

For HD use, I still prefer a traditional stock and use the Hogue 12" L.O.P. on my 590a1. The shorter length of pull allows the shooter to better square up behind the weapon which allows the body to absorb recoil much better vs. shooting bladed (with contact shoulder to the rear). Using a recoil pad like a Limbsaver will help to further reduce recoil and make shooting a lot more comfortable. Using a combination of the Hogue 12" L.O.P., Limbsaver recoil pad, and low-recoil ammo, shooting my 590a1 is just as pain free as with my 590 and Gen1 Knoxx.

As far as 12ga vs. 20ga, I'll have to defer that part of the conversation as I have zero experience behind a 20ga and cannot comment on the difference in felt recoil. However, I'd have a difficult time believing that 20ga would be any less effective in neutralizing a threat at average HD range...
 
WGP said:
What do you think about a 20 gauge for HD?
Click to expand...

I've done a fair amount of shooting with the 20g and I don't think you are shorting yourself by using it for HD. I used one this year for bear hunting, If I didn't think it would do the job I would never have carried it into the woods.

IMHO people put way to much emphasis on the caliber/guage rather than the proficiencly with whichever model they choose (and this is no criticism of your question). To me the 20G is lighter and has less recoil. This is an issue if the recoil of a 12 guage is too much for you, or if you have arthritis, or if you have a wife, girlfriend, children, etc. that are also going to shoot the gun and are adverse to the recoil of 12g loads.

Interesting artilce by Massad Ayoob: Consider the 20-gauge shotgun

You will just have a bit more difficult time finding accessories for it, specifically the forends Most stocks will fit with a very slight overhang as the 12G receiver is slightly wider then the 20G version.
 
Sounds good. I looked today at a Mossberg 12 & 20 gauge and a Stevens 12 gauge made by Savage Arms. I have never heard of that one. But the price is pretty low. I know the reputation Mossberg has, and to be frank, I would rather pay a little more for a gun that I know is reliable when the SHTF. A buddy of mine is going to buy the Stevens. I'm going to read that article now.

Thanks!
 
I like Stevens shotguns. No doubt about that and I own a couple.

I only have 1 mossberg though. But it's been pretty good.

Well, after I got a barrel that would shoot worth a hoot, and if you don't take into consideration the safety doesn't work on it.

But I can say that it's never failed to fire when you pull the trigger.
 
I am new here but have been through several tactical and fighting shotguns classes. Here is what I have seen, the Mossberg 500/590 and Remington 870 are most popular, 12 gauge is what most have chosen, and very few had the "tactical look.

My current build is a 500 with Hogue 12"LOP stock, a big dot sight, tactical safety, and a signal point sling. My old gun was an 870 that was shot to death and in need of a major overhaul.
I have just order a Monster Flashlight R5 and Elzetta ZSM mount. I will give a review once installed.
No one can tell you what to use, but I would strongly suggest a class or two on how to use the weapon. I though I knew what I was doing, but as usual I was wrong.

Don't forget the ammo. My last instructor was a 2 3/4 00 buckshot freak, it was his DRT (dead right there) ammo. This was the only thing that he would use and you didn't dare mention bird shoot.
 
I have owned my 590 for just a week but found out something about the 500s when I ordered one on Saturday last wekend. Came home from the store and tried all over the web to buy a longer tube extension as the model i had ordered was an inexpensive base model. Turns out that many (some,most?) of the 500s can't have a longer tube installed. They don't have a screw off end cap on the tube like most shotguns. SO the only way to get more capacity is to replace the barrel and tube w/ a longer pair. The Mossberg website has a pitiful amount of info so it's very difficult to tell what each model is equiped like. I went back to the store on Sunday and bought a 590 they had on hand.
 
Welcome aboard Craig,

The tube/cap design on the 590 is a definite plus if you're looking to modify the mag capacity. So how do you like the 590 so far?
 
My perennial advice--instead of buying an expensive stock buy a second gun with a stock that fits the second shooter.

As far as recoil, low recoil ammo or 20 gauge buck can solve this problem. Most of your break-in and training will be done with bird shot, for costs reasons if no other, so the harsh recoil is mostly a problem for an actual shootout when you won't notice it anyway.

Most HD incidents involve 0 to 2 shots. If your circumstances are such that you need more than 6 shots, consider a carbine or a second shotgun and second shooter. That being said, if you feel you really need the 8 shots, try to buy a gun that already has 8 shots rather than fooling around with aftermarket parts.
 
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