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Shotgun Ammo for Home Defense- #8

LTB45

.30-06
Rest in Peace
Supporter
For your viewing pleasure and discussion.
This subject has been argued/discussed EVERYWHERE....LOL!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RVvL9ZjU[/youtube]
 
"It goes against everything I believe in to ruin $25 of good pork"

I could not agree more. :D
 
Well, definitely entertaining. :) I had a hard time really seeing what he was pointing out. For instance, how far could he have shoved his fingers into that meat before he shot it? Raw meat is gonna give, if you poke it with your fingers. Could you see the "devastation" he saw inside the shoulder? I did see the broken rib, on top, I thought that was pretty impressive. Too bad he didn't shoot one with that PDX load, I'd like to have seen what that would have done. :D Thanks for sharing, good stuff. Take care. Tom Worthington.
 
I just came upon that video last night. A few problems that he didn't address is your skin and a determined attacker. Your skin is very tough and elastic. The 'give' absorbs alot of the punch as the birdshot spreads. Put on a coat or heavy shirt and it becomes more so. Have you ever heard the term "it'll keep the honest ones out" describing a flimsy lock or such that will keep most people out , but someone who really wanted in your stuff could bust it?
I feel this is the same way with most bad guys. 99% of the time, just sight off a shotgun pointed in their direction is enough. Maybe 1 blast with birdshot is enough. I've never shot at someone and hopefully will never have to. That being said, I would want to stop their advancement now. Not shoot to kill, shoot to stop. I feel that 00 buck is a better 'stopper'.
 
Never would I rely on birdshot unless its all I have on hand. However, I never shoot all the 00 I have, I always keep enough for the house should a threat ever present itself.

If I have to use threat of deadly force I intend permanence. Finality.

I can't watch the vid on my phone but I have seen that one. I don't agree with his findings and I rather see the birdshot compared side x side in the same fashion, to 00, slugs, and a 55 gr. 5.56.

The birdshot may look impressive but each of those pellets is on its own and individually they lack the weight and density to reliably penetrate deeply enough to damage or destroy vital organs. At best birdshot is a "maybe".

I wish I had my computer, id like to see if I could find the "foot pounds energy" on birdshot the way they give it for 00 and slugs...
 
I do worry about 00 penetrating mine & my neighbor's wall, so I've always loaded two rounds of birdshot with a follow-up 3 rounds of #4 buckshot. Not sure how far that #4 will go after it exits my outside wall, but I feel I need something to back up the birdshot if the intruder doesn't stay on the floor.
 
LoneStar, I def understand your concern.

My concern with youngins in the house and over penetration is one of them bein hit. Biggest part of my philosophy is to put every projectile on target and that means testing the performance of any round I keep on hand at a few different ranges. There are a few loads I find acceptable for my needs.
 
lonestarjeff said:
I do worry about 00 penetrating mine & my neighbor's wall, so I've always loaded two rounds of birdshot with a follow-up 3 rounds of #4 buckshot.

Personally, I use 00 ... I've got the same issue as you regarding wall penetration. It's my suggestion that you only use 1 round of birdshot with more lethal to back it up. If you are shooting more than one round in your house then you have a problem that needs more lethal ammo ASAP. If you've got more than 1 round of birdshot then you may never get a chance to use the more lethal rounds.

That's my opinion.
 
I have always been told "If you are going to shoot, shoot too kill!" because if you just wound and put the man/woman on the ground... there is room for them to sue you for some strange reason... My Grandfather, Father, Uncles and Aunts all who own firearms for SD/HD are surely going to Shoot too Kill.

I think I have said it before #4 Buck is on top of 00 Buck with a side saddle of slugs... If I got through all of that, I am in some deep s**t! haha I can see within 5yds Bird Shot to the throat or face would be "Game Over" but I don't want them that close haha
 
I have been trying some of the Federal LE13200 Low Recoil Flitecontrol Wad. This LE 00 buck shot. It has a nice tight pattern up to 25 yards and it also past the FIB penetration test.
This is some of the best 00 buck I have used. The lower recoil allows be to back on target faster, and my shoulder likes it also. And its cheap 50 round $50 bucks shipped.
 
$50/Shipped you say? Not too bad!
I need some ammunition stored away... My Slugs are being shot regularly these past few days lol
 
Yeah, I'm not convinced. The test is pretty low rent - far from scientific. If 00 is overkill, I'm okay with that. It's just my wife and me in our stout brick, plaster and lath home with the same on both sides. I have solid wood doors so my only real concern is shooting out a window - a minimal concern.

If someone wants to go with bird shot I'd say your best bet is to use larger shot ( smaller numbers) and choke it down. I'd use full or XF even XXF to concentrate the energy.

It's anecdotal info but at a club shotgun steel match (IDPA style) earlier this year everybody showed up with a wide variety of equipment from duck guns to cut off cyl only. #6 shot was the upper limit, I shot 5 with club permission ( had a few boxes, not sure why - I helped repaint after the match) - most brought Wally's 71/2 or 8. I ran full choke and chatted a good bit with others about chokes. Like I said lots of cyl, also mod, IC, IM etc. the guys with cyl shooting 71/2 or 8 had a rough time with the tougher steel or any at more than 7 yds. Some ran through a LOT of ammo trying. You could hear the handful of pellets plinking on the steel. Some of the bad boys with their 18" 'room clearing' guns ended the day with a dose of reality. Crestfallen is a good word for it. I had to aim (yeah!) and the steel dropped very crisply.

IMHO birdshot is for birds-literally!
 
Itsricmo said:
I have always been told "If you are going to shoot, shoot too kill!" because if you just wound and put the man/woman on the ground... there is room for them to sue you for some strange reason... My Grandfather, Father, Uncles and Aunts all who own firearms for SD/HD are surely going to Shoot too Kill....
...and sOme say "shoot until the threat is neutralized."
 
Nobody wants to get shot with anything and sometimes all you have is all you have and no one denies damage will be done…..but then there is human will.
I mean remember the dude who cut his arm off to free himself while rock climbing. He lost an entire limb and survived.
I have a bunch of young vets the work for my and some of the things those kids seen people live through are stunning.
If all you have is bird shot then make it happen but if you have a choice why not choose the most devastating punishment you can? up your odds of stopping thing because there is no blood left from leaking out big 33 caliber holes not one mushy depression that can be “toughed out” if determined enough….
As far as shooting unintended targets, that something you accepted as you picked up that weapon. We all do what we can do to mitigate collateral damage but the risk is always there because let’s face it, it’s a gun and its dangerous everyone on the wrong end of it so it’s up to the user to not pull the trigger unless it the utmost last resort and we know the result of what’s about to happen is hands down worse than what would happen if we didn’t pull the trigger
 
personally, if you get shot with anything; be it bird shot, target load, slugs or whatever, i dont think most intruders will stick around (if they are not on the ground) to see what else you could shoot out of your shotgun at them. And if they do they are eaither some dumbass MF'ers or really, really want whatever it is you have......
but no matter what rounds i may have on me, if it comes down to protecting my family and belongings, you can bet you will be recieving all 9 rounds in my 590 and then whatever other gun i grab as back up if it persists.

just like my dad told me when i deployed to afghanistan, dont trust those SOB's no matter what.
i didnt....caues its either you or me getting shot, and it sure as hell wasnt gonna be me!
 
stigmata said:
i dont think most intruders will stick around (if they are not on the ground) to see what else you could shoot out of your shotgun at them. And if they do they are eaither some dumbass MF'ers or really, really want whatever it is you have......

I once chasing an intruder out of the second floor bedroom I was sleeping in. And this was military base housing. I was completely unarmed. Fortunately for me, he apparently wasn't either. Never again.

I'm not really all that concerned about "most intruders". I'm concerned about the one (or ones) who is completely incapable of feeling pain and is completely incapable of reason. That one scares me much more. That one has to be stopped, completely against his will. I don't fully trust that I can make that happen with birdshot. He may or may not be killed, but that isn't my goal. My goal is to make him STOP. Take care. Tom Worthington.
 
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