• Mossberg Owners is in the process of upgrading the software. Please bear with us while we transition to the new look and new upgraded software.

Does a slug kinda defeat the purpose of an HD shotgun?

oli700 said:
m24shooter said:
However, there are some serious limitations to using a slug for defensive and duty use that have not been mentioned/considered here.
I'm interested , if you want to expand on that :cool:
In relation to the rifle/carbine, there is a significant increase in recoil and reduction in capacity.
In addition, you have about an ounce of metal flying downrange. In general, overpenetration is not a real concern. This is why a lot of people think the shotgun is a better option than an AR for defensive use. However, proper load selection in an AR will have less danger after passing through a target. In addition, penetration through buidling materials is less with a 5.56/.223 round than a one ounce slug. Reloading is much quicker with an AR than with pretty much any shotgun. Many slugs also have a seperate wad, which can become its own lethal projo.
In relationship to buck, you obviously have the one large projo still, just versus several small ones. Penetration issues remain both in terms of overpenetration and barrier penetration.
In terms of exterior ballistics, the slugs are typically shorter ranged and have more challenges than rifle/carbine rounds at longer ranges. Not a concern for everybody and every role, but it is there for some.
 
oli700 said:
m24shooter said:
However, there are some serious limitations to using a slug for defensive and duty use that have not been mentioned/considered here.
I'm interested , if you want to expand on that :cool:

I was gonna ask the same thing! Thanks!
 
Makes since. I don’t have an AR...a Mini instead I have had for years. I haven’t had a lot of formal training or study of ballistics but I have put a lot of lead in meat and have seen what all kinds of calibers do to flesh and bone including buck shot. Got a small buck at around 40 yards years ago with my mini and was very very surprised at the damage done, 62 gr hollow point….that was the day I really gained respect for that load. I gained respect for the 9mm the same way with a deer I finished off, my friends dad got it with an 06 ,I was first on scene and it was still kicking. Got it through the ear hole with a 124gr HP and it emptied his head clean….I was very surprised.
 
Hi cap Glock 22 and Sig 9 are under the bed in a quickaccess safe under cover. At last check I have 7-10 sec access. My 930 is locked nearby but not in cover so it is backup #2/3. Mag extension and on-gun rounds = 19 so if I get there I'm pretty well set with me, wife, cell phone, and 12G if possible-shells and mags are easily available and only 1door to cover. Hope it never comes to that but planned just in case. Rifles are locked away more remote. I'm okay with 9, 40 and buck for home invasion. SHTF is another plan all together. =^}
 
I would much rather patch a hole from a slug than from #00. No sabots loaded in the house. My sabots have about 2 and a half times the distance and muzzle velocity than the average 9mm. I won't pull the trigger with out having acquired a target and knowing that the target is a real threat. Pulling that trigger can mean a real life changing event.
 
I decided to pattern my home defense ammunition, as has been highly suggested here. I have Remington 12 gauge 2 3/4" #1 Buckshot 16 pellet shells. I shot from 6 yards, about the max I could imagine shooting someone inside my house. Much farther and they'd have to be outside the house. It patterned at a consistent 5" diameter when fired from my 18.5" Maverick.

If I do hit center mass, with either a slug or buckshot, I think I'll stop an intruder of most any type.

However, what if I'm just 3" left or right of center mass? No stray pellets heading off target and through the drywall, but not hitting center mass. Will a slug stop an intruder when it hits 3" off center mass? I'm not sure, especially if it's in the lower half of the upper torso. I'm thinking that if 16 #1 buck pellets all hit the target, but some at the outer fleshy bits and others right in the dead center of the torso, the intruder is definitely going to stop. I'm still gonna strive for perfection, but I also want to cover my bets, if possible.

What's that saying about horseshoes and hand grenades? Take care. Tom Worthington.
 
A slug is a solid projectile. It will almost certainly completely penetrate at 6 yards no matter where you hit, but especially the stomach area where there isn't much bone to slow and stop it.

If you hit the target (even if it's not exactly the precise point you're aiming at), will take the fight out of most people in a hurry and they'll be leaking out of the front and back, but don't ever think that a slug will stop everyone in their tracks because if they're drugged up, they may not even know it until the hydraulics are empty.
 
John A. said:
...but don't ever think that a slug will stop everyone in their tracks because if they're drugged up, they may not even know it until the hydraulics are empty.


QFT!!
 
Hopefully I can get this thread back on track, others have stated great info already so i will add to it. I think were missing the point in that with a home defense shotgun, the shotgun is a very versitile option and the choice between buckshot and or a slug is the opporators decision depending on circumstance. They should both be readily available for the operator. By not carrying both limits your gun, thus taking away what makes this weapon system great. First off, The operator should know the patterning of his or her weapon, and effectiveness of that weapon at range, as well of surroundings and what's behind his or her target all play a role in his selection of ammo. Let's say that your gun patterns very well at 15 yards with 00 buck and you have patterned that brand of ammo enough to know that you can have enough hits on the target and you can account for every ball that comes out with that pull of the trigger, then make the shot. But if you know that say at 20 yards it's not, then do a quick slug change over and engage. This all depends on your gun and choice of ammo. It's something we should all be aware of when using this weapon system for home defense. The last thing you would want is a "flyer" hitting a family member in the next room. So It's not about "slug is better than buck" or what not, or "slug will stop this or that". Or "rifle is better", or "replaces this". Every platform has its pros and cons, Know your gun and it's limitations.
 
Does a slug defeat the purpose of an HD shotgun?
No. But it is vastly different in its usage and effects in that setting.

Rather than go into a lot of discussion of the issue and in the interest of general education about this issue (and a number of others), here are a few websites that everyone should book mark, IMHO.

Simple and to the point:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu143.htm

A basic compendium of shotgun loads and links for defense:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_1/27...nks__Part__s_and_Info___Updated_Sep_2011.html

More professional and detailed:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

A wealth of professional data from Doctor G.K. Roberts on a broad range of topics:
http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
(Check out especially The Presumptive Hazards of Overpenetration.)

These sites will clear up a lot of general misinformation, urban myths, and old wives' tales.
 
KentuckyWindage said:
So It's not about "slug is better than buck" or what not, or "slug will stop this or that". Or "rifle is better", or "replaces this". Every platform has its pros and cons, Know your gun and it's limitations.

I very much agree with this as well as your other statement regarding knowing your firearm and chosen loads!

Pete, I'll be checkin out those links!!!
 
.....I've also spoken with some law enforcement, (discussing ammunition design and terminal ballistic theories) and the subject of auditory exclusion came up. His professional experience finds in adrenaline filled moments some degree of noise is is completely filtered out.

This is known as auditory esclusion, the flow of adrenaline casues this occurance along with other things. I have fired a gun in an agressive action, 11 rounds discharged in an enclosed room. After the smoked cleared no effect on my hearing at all.
 
Huh?

All joking aside, I have tinninitus in both ears and 60% total loss in my left ear and hearing damage is no joking matter.

One night you lay down and all you hear is this ringing in your ears, and it never goes away.

I notice it more when my surroundings are fairly quiet. Especially when I'm trying to go to sleep than any other time because it often takes me a long time to go to sleep because of it.

Just ask any ear doctor worth his salt and he'll give you the lowdown.

Adrenaline may do a lot of things, but it will not reduce the sound (pressure) levels that reach your eardrum, whether you brain chooses to muffle it or not, the pressure that damages your ears is still present.

That is the sole reason I started learning about silencers, and ultimately designing and building them.
 
John A. said:
One night you lay down and all you hear is this ringing in your ears, and it never goes away.

Yup, been experiencing that for a few years now myself. For me it's like hearing a constant air leak. a slight hiss. Sometimes, depending on whats going on around me I don't notice it as much but it is always there.

Auditory exclusion does not mean that you are not doing damage. ....And a lot of the damage you do does not show itself for many years down the road. By the time you realize it, it's to late.
 
Slug, Buckshot, rifle or pistol bullet, all can/will kill in home defense situations. Heck, a .22 does a darn good job of killing with proper placement.

What I will state is if you have Mossberg's Breacher barrel with the sawtooth tipped muzzle brake you can probably disable or even kill an attacker with that muzzle brake alone. Ram that pointed sucker in someones face and they will be hurting pretty bad. You can also jam that sawtooth right into his skull or torso and pull the trigger till it goes click, thus ending the threat. Although I would not necessarily recommend that except in unique circumstances.
 
Wait, whadyall say? I hear just a constant ringin too, and in public settings or if there is any background noise I cant make out distint speech. That's the suck part to me, I hate bein out anywhere.

On the subject of the breacher, I don't have one, but if I did, gettin that close to a threat is like the very last thing on my "to do" list.
 
Back
Top