715T to M16A1 mod.

[Otto Matic]

Not sure what forum to post this in but I am hoping the right person will find it. I am modifying my 715T carry handle version to resemble my old Vietnam issue M16A1. I have purchased the triangular forestock with its end cap and the M16A4 solid stock. I want the finished rifle to weigh the same as the .223 version (minus the ammo). Research tells me the M16A1 weighs 7.18 pounds unloaded and the lighter 715T is only 5.25 pounds. I am going to add steel or lead to make up the 2 lbs difference.

I want to insure the authentic balance of the weapon. I can do this if I know the center of gravity. Could someone who owns an M16A1, AR15 (or reasonable facsimile) please lay their rifle on a table top and measure the distance from the trigger towards the front of the barrel when the rifle starts to tip over the edge. Of course that's just one way of doing it. That should be close enough. Thank you, Otto.

 

[ripjack13]

@John A. or @LAZY EYED SNIPER ?

 

[John A.]

The center of gravity is at the delta ring/barrel nut just forward of the receiver where the back of the handguard starts and that is with a fully loaded 30 round magazine locked in.

I have seen some lead inserts that will fit in the buttstock storage area. That may be something that would help you add some weight to it.

I'm unsure why you want to add a couple pounds of weight to a 22lr, but hope it helps.

 

[Otto Matic]

The center of gravity is at the delta ring/barrel nut just forward of the receiver where the back of the handguard starts and that is with a fully loaded 30 round magazine locked in.

I have seen some lead inserts that will fit in the buttstock storage area. That may be something that would help you add some weight to it.

I'm unsure why you want to add a couple pounds of weight to a 22lr, but hope it helps.

Thank you John. I want to add the weight because the first time I picked up the new rifle it felt like a BB gun. I am trying for realism with a hunk of plastic. I need the center of balance WITHOUT the clip. I want to pick up the weapon and think "Ah, feels like the real thing"! Then pour myself a Coke.

 

[John A.]

without the mag, the center of balance is just barely forward of where the front pivot pin would be.

 

[Otto Matic]

without the mag, the center of balance is just barely forward of where the front pivot pin would be.

With the rifle unloaded could you insert your index finger through the forward edge of the carry handle, lift and it would remain level?

 

[John A.]

Nope. The center point is farther forward than that.

Not a lot (half inch maybe), but it's enough that it won't balance in the carry handle.

 

[Otto Matic]

Nope. The center point is farther forward than that.

Not a lot (half inch maybe), but it's enough that it won't balance in the carry handle.

OK. That is what I need to know. It is probably pretty close to what I have now so inserting a pound each in both stocks should be good. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Otto Matic]

I am having difficulty researching the type of material used by Tapco for the 715T shell. The M16 stock and triangular forestocks I purchased are made of ABS. I was unable to dissolve the original Mossberg forestocks with acetone so I assume they are made of thermoplastic but I fear using a plastic welder due to accidental melting. I think I will use Loctite Marine epoxy after a good scarring and thrashing with a soldering iron. Anyone have experience repairing these kinds of plastic?

 

[SHOOTER13]

Maybe you should have just bought an AR-15...sounds like a lot of agg to go through for weight and balance...and then you would have a real replica of your service rifle...caliber and all.

 

[John A.]

I'm glad that the tapco materials are chemical resistant. I don't think that is by accident.

I've seen a lot of folks like these little model 715 22's for a lot of different reasons, but I think this was a first on this one.

This:

To this:

=

Different in too many ways.

Aside from the obvious caliber difference, the 715t just has a decorative shell over top of this, so without some massive engineering abilities, the triangle handguard is never going to drop in not only due to length, but even the mounting methods are different, and the rear receiver extension is probably not going to convert easily to a rifle length stock either:

 

[Otto Matic]

Shooter 13, You are in for some surprises. I have successfully attached the airsoft triangular forestock which is an exact replica of the original M16 stock including the aluminum heat shield and. It fit perfectly with very little filing. The hardest part so far has been the 4 hours of sanding and filing so the razor sharp corners of the plastic shell are rounded off and look more like metal. Though I have not fired it yet I have finished with a couple mods that have been recommended on Youtube. Polished loading ramp, shortened safety / eject spring, buffed-out bolt and housing and, of course, cleaned out factory lube. The action is much smoother.

If you read my previous posts you would know that I do not want a .223 rifle. I built a full-tactical SKS last year and it is too heavy and clumsy and I discovered I have matured and don't like the powerfull shells. Too damn noisy! I just want a calm and casual .22 semi-auto plinker that LOOKS like my old M16 and believe me if you were to disregard a few features like the fake assist and eject buttons you would say it does indeed look and feel like the original. That is all I want. A good condition 50 year old M16 sells for $15 ,000 to $18,000. No thanks. Hey, I live in a trailer! In another week I will have a brand new, hand built Mossberg 715T/ M16A1 for under $300 and I can shoot it all day for 20 bucks worth of ammo! The stock is being re-engineered as well and will fit fine plus be removable so it can be changed back. It will easily handle all the punishment a .22 cartridge can dish out and then some. Of course I won't be opening c-rations with it or bending concertina wire with the 3-prong flash suppressor. I am going to make one small change to the colors though. The early originals were black furniture with grey metal upper and lowers. I prefer olive drab for the hardware including the barrel and front sight. Memory fades but I think that is what my rifle had.

Anyway, here is a picture of how far I have come so far.

 

[John A.]

I can say that I too am a little more than surprised that it's turning out as well as it is. But it is looking good so far.

 

[dieselmudder]

Definate props for creativity.

 

[ripjack13]

Otto, you keep it going. Not everyone can afford to get the real thing. You're doing the it the right way, not pretending it's something it's not. I'm diggin on this build topic. Nicely done....

 

[Otto Matic]

Photo updated

 

[ripjack13]

Looks good otto. Nice.

It looks like you had tried to load 2 pix. One is missing so i removed the file text of the missing pic.

 

[Otto Matic]

Thank you.

 

[Otto Matic]

I have glassed 10" long pieces of .012 steel inside both halves of the triangular forestock. Not quite a pound but enough to make the gun feel like the weight and heft of the real thing. When I attach the butt stock it will be filled with a pound of putty and should even it out for a nice balance. I recall picking the gun up for the first time at Big 5 and how disappointed I was when it felt like a toy gun. Not any more!

 

[Otto Matic]

I installed the M16 stock and the rifles' transformation is complete. The new stock has a solid metal shoulder pad complete with metal door for the storage compartment. The gun is well balanced and I will not need to add weights. If any one wants more information on this mod let me know.