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Any electricians here? Please advise.

Rossignol

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I'm working on the electric in the barn. I'm running new 14/2 romex into the existing panel which is modern components as of '92 or later. It's 120 volt service into a 50 amp main.

What I'm trying to accomplish is installing new electronic low wattage ballasts over my work bench through a standard light switch. The issue isn't as simple as the light doesn't turn on, what's happening is that when I turn the switch on, the voltage drops to 3. Before its turned on but with the new dedicated breaker on, I'm getting about 119 volts but once the actual switch is on, everything reads 3. In the panel and at the switch.

It does this in other places in the barn too. There are a number of outlets that can't be used currently (see what I did there? "Currently"?) because the voltage drops.

Anyone able to trouble shoot? Thanks fellas!
 
If it helps, this is exactly how I have the switch wired;

image.jpg

Is it possibly a grounding issue?
 
You always switch the "hot" wire which is the black wire (ALWAYS). The hot will always go to the smaller of the two spades on a add-on plug or outlet. Most outlet and fixture screws and terminals are plated differently: light plating is the white wire, or "neutral" and the brass color would be the hot terminal. Green is obviously green and is the ground.

PS: it would sound like the feed to your barn has issues if this happens to outlets, as well. Is it possible an underground wire was damaged? Sometimes weatherproofing fails in boxes and weatherheads, etc. Maybe as simple as cleaning a terminal or connection?

Analogy: river running to a water wheel grinding grain. Beavers build a dam upstream limiting flow of the river so even though some water flows at the same speed, there is not enough volume to spin the wheel. The dam is a restriction. In electric speak the dam is resistance or Ohms. Volts would be the lake upstream of the dam supplying the river. Amps would be the flow of the river. The water wheel is the load. So you are still getting a voltage reading under no load conditions BUT when you apply the load, there is not enough flow (Amps) to make it through the resistance. Even a few strands of a cut wire will show 120v until you try to put a load on it...

PPS: the ground (green) should not normally be part of electrical flow unless there is a short. The neutral (white) is the "return" from the load to complete the circuit. A bad neutral could also be an issue...
 
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Thank you for the response and ideas!

Hmm, the wiring to the barn is underground. I have a couple breakers working fine. I have extension cords run to the couple lights and to the chicken coop to run box fans. One wall is completely powered over several outlets. It's about 3 breakers that have an issue and what I am running is brand new.

To summarize, I have 120 volts at the 50 amp main, and full power to a couple breakers which are running so its isolated to just a few.

I attached the grounds because that's what the picture shows, lol! Well that and it's in a plastic box. I grounded it in the fixture though.

I may tie in my new lights to a breaker that is working to see what happens.
 
So I just connected to a breaker that is functioning properly and my lights work.
 
I removed the wiring and a breaker for something not being used and tried the new breaker in that spot. Connected everything and the lights work there as well.

It seems like there are bad spots in the panel. Could it be the contact surfaces?
 
Yes, but it could also be a bad breaker. Or the breaker contacts being spread apart too far to make good contact with the panel.

If you can run a quick wire to a plug in and plug up a lamp to see if it's the breaker, that would tell the tale. It doesn't have to be in the wall. Just a few foot jumper from the breaker to the plug will work. Basically, just make a short jumper.

That will eliminate (or prove) if the breaker is good or not.

You can have the correct voltage, and have very few amps to actually run it. That's what I'm getting at. When you turn the light on, if the light is dim, your breaker itself will be bad.
 
I initially thought the breakers were bad. This is why I moved the brand new one to another slot and the light worked from that point which is why I'm more than a little confused.
 
It's like connectivity is good in some places on the bar and not others.
 
It's possible.

Is it a new box?

Is there rust?

Are the bars bent?

Was the breaker locked in?

Just a lot of variables.

I thought you put the lights on a different breaker and it worked.
 
It's a small panel with only 10 or 12 slots. I honestly don't know. It's an existing panel, it may be close to 20 years old. I checked the voltage at the main lugs and was getting 120+/- if that helps.

It's possible.

Is it a new box?

Is there rust?

Are the bars bent?

Was the breaker locked in?

Just a lot of variables.

I thought you put the lights on a different breaker and it worked.

No rust, can't tell that anything is bent. Not brand new but neither is it old. I've seen much worse and totally replaced an old stab lock panel a few years ago.

Everything was locked in tight and breakers were in fact difficult to remove.

Here's what I did to troubleshoot;
I put in a brand new 20 amp breaker. It read good voltage until I turned it on which is the same issue I had with 2 or 3 others. I ran my wiring instead to a breaker I knew to be functioning properly. All my new wiring, switch and ballast worked. So I then moved the new breaker to another location in the panel to a spot where there was a good breaker to see if the new breaker was bad, to either rule it out or rule it in as the issue. Once placed, I connected all my wiring to the new and it worked. So what I've found is that there are places or locations in the panel where I'm not getting full current rather than an issue with the breakers themselves. They seem to show good current until they're open, or rather when I turn on a switch.
 
Refer to the pics of 220 breaker boxes. Note the staggered bus bars that the breakers, when installed, make contact against. Like the fingers in one hand in-between fingers of the other. Note that the neutral has its own bus and each leg of the 220v (110v each) has its own bus. And yes, the neutral bus is also connected to the ground bus.

A 110v breaker will only contact one of the hot buses, while a 220v breaker will contact both.

Often, to avoid confusion, an electrician will use a red wire or red tape on a black wire to differentiate the 110v feeds. Sometimes, if someone is running a dedicated 220v circuit, they may cheap out and use 110v wire and make the white wire one of the hots. If this is done, the white wire should be taped with red tape on both ends to indicate it is part of a 220v circuit. With dedicated 220v circuits, there is no need for a neutral wire as the voltage returns through the other hot wire due to alternating current and phase. The ground wire is still a safety wire should there be a short. Newer 220v appliances may require an additional neutral (white) wire to be able to utilize 110v circuitry and timers by tapping one of the hots.

Now if you have an actual 110v box, you will not have two hot buses, only one. Why someone would only run 110v to an outbuilding is beyond me. I would look at the wiring from the source panel in your house or wherever and see what the wires are connected to. Your 3v reading might just be some kind of backfeed through a device or motor or something connected to another circuit on the bus that is actually hot.

Time to post some pics of the inside of your breaker panel... o_O

PS: breakers are usually specific to the brand name of panel you have. You couldn't use GE breakers with a Square D panel, for example.
 

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I'll get a pic in the morning, I should have done it earlier and even thought about it, lol

My panel doesn't look like that. I imagine its the 110 variety. I guess they didn't have a proper shop in there with equipment to run. It's just a few fluorescent lights and outlets everywhere that don't actually work except for on one wall. There are outlets above the fluorescent lights but because of the issues, there are extension cords run from good outlets on the wall to power the lights. It's a little weird.

If I can get it figured out, I can get the lights run above the loft. Which is where I'm going to put shutters in. Which is where I'll sit and watch for deer. Oh and the kids can play up there too when it's not hunting season I guess.
 
why so many breakers taped up?
 
You state that it is a 120 volt service, looks to me like a 220/240 volt panel . If you put your volt meter across the 2 main lugs you will probably see 220/ 240 volts. The large black wire with the white strip should be your Neutral. I would suspect that you have a bad connection, most likely the Neutral. If it is Aluminum wire it can oxidize , if oxidized and you have enough wire cut it off, scrape the wire and coat with electrical antioxidant paste (can get at Home depot). The bad connection could also be back in the main breaker box feed to the garage. Like someone mentioned under load the connection can break down.

It doesn't look like anything is wrong with the panel but could be a hidden bad bus connection, probe from each breaker lug connection to Neutral, should be 110/120 volts

Modern code would require an isolated Neutral with a separate ground feed from your main panel but what you have will work

You might consider getting an electrician if you can't sort it out , be careful as electricity can kill you (even 110 volts under the right conditions)

Norm
 
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