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Birdshot for Home Defense?

Discussion in 'Mossberg 590 Shockwave' started by MarkB1, Nov 10, 2017.

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  1. MarkB1

    MarkB1 .223

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    Back in June of 2012 Jeff Quinn of Gunblast.com made this video about using different shot for home defense.

    Take a look:
  2. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    This subject has been beat to death. :popcorn:
  3. MarkB1

    MarkB1 .223

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    OK. I hadn't seen anything on it.
  4. Tom396

    Tom396 .308

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    1,356
    I am just going to say "no" and leave it at that...unless your home has been invaded by birds. Take care. Tom Worthington
    #1Buck4me and Pocchr like this.
  5. nitesite

    nitesite Ammo Nerd Forum Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    It sucks. Leave behind you the thought of using birdshot.
  6. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

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    No.

    Reason being.... when you commit to using lethal force it should be lethal.

    Birdshot is used for birds and clays.

    Buck shot is used against large animals.

    A human is a large animal.

    And there you have it.
  7. Elbert Garrett

    Elbert Garrett .223

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    I`m using a low recoil buckshot load in both of my shotguns but I think birdshot could be lethal in close quarters.

    According to the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health...
    2-dimensional echocardiograms were performed on 150 standing adults in the parasternal, apical, and subcostal views. From each view, the shortest linear skin-to-heart distance was measured.

    parasternal. : adjacent to the sternum and the human sternum is only fractions of an inch thick........

    Average skin-to-heart distances were: parasternal 32.1 +/- 7.9 mm (1.26378 inches).

    So it`s less than 2 inches from the surface of the skin to the outer surface of the heart.

    This Winchester 2 3/4" 8 shot cut a 2.5" hole easily through 5/8 plywood from 14ft.

    100_8262.JPG
  8. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw 20g Supporter

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  9. Elbert Garrett

    Elbert Garrett .223

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    "First three inches of permanent wound cavity were completely destroyed. Little to no temporary stretch cavity effects were observed. Small sized birdshot such as this #8 heavy dove load is a poor choice for deployment with a tactical shotgun. Wounds inflicted from birdshot tend to be gruesome yet shallow as they lack the penetration required to reach vital cardiovascular or central nervous system structures.

    bird_8_heavy_dove_b.jpg "

    I agree with Farago when he says "#8 heavy dove load is a poor choice for deployment with a tactical shotgun. " because of body armor and some cases the heavy clothing and the combination of both will decrease penetration but there is not a lot of meth heads wearing body armor and a jean jacket won`t hardly slow down 1oz of 8 shot traveling 1290 fps in close quarters and even his gel test shows a penetration of about 4".....and it`s less than 2 inches from the surface of the skin to the outer surface of the heart.

    "The gun must be fired at a so-called “vital area” of the attacker. This usually means the heart or the brain/spine. Hits to the lungs and other organs can also be effective, but results may be slower.
    The bullet must have the ability to penetrate whatever is between the muzzle and those vital organs in order to disrupt their function — for non-uniformed civilians, this typically includes clothing, tissue, and bone.
    No matter what else may happen during the course of a lethal confrontation, if you shoot the guy in the right spot with a bullet that penetrates deep enough, the threat will go down." -By Chris Baker

    Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition Ballistics Test
    http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

    Enough of me playing the devil's advocate, like I mentioned I currently have two 12ga shotguns in near proximity for HD, the Mav 88 is loaded with Fiocchi low recoil 2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 and the 590 is loaded with NSI 2 1/4" 6 pellet 00, I`m sure either one of these will stop the threat.

    "Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. I may get killed with my own gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, cause it's gonna be empty." -Clint Smith
  10. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

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    You need 12"-18" of penetration. What tests fail to describe are bones in the way.

    I'm not just talking about chest ribs. Bones in the arms because hands usually cover the body plus sideways shots. You'll need that type of penetration to cover most scenarios you'll encounter.

    Bad guys don't stand there squared up with open chests for the perfect shot like on the target board. They move, try to engage you and shoot back mostly.
    #1Buck4me and John A. like this.
  11. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    They could show up wearing armor too . . . you just never know.

    Buckshot gives you a better chance against whatever happens.
  12. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw 20g Supporter

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    Also missing is the effect of skin. I have read that just getting through the skin can be the equivalent of up to 4" of gel penetration, due to it's thickness and elasticity.
  13. Forrestinmathews

    Forrestinmathews .223

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    Great...let's start another really intelligent and interesting thread that stirs the pot and invariably leads to division and insults(perceived, implied, earned or outright hurled upon). May I also suggest "To chamber or not to chamber a round in my CCW" or "Open Carry vs. Concealed" or "My hipoint is the ultimate self defense weapon" and finally "Hiking to Starbucks with my AK through three school zones in my trenchcoat cuz 'merica."

    My Shockwave is better than yours. Because I love it more and feed it all kinds of shells and it's my best friend. It told me so. Hahaha.
  14. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

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    nobody likes you... and you still pee the bed.
    Sniffler and Forrestinmathews like this.
  15. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    I'd talk.
  16. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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  17. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

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    Lol

    Uh oh. Cool G Suppressor man commin up in this hizzza.
  18. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    I'd challenge you to a dual after lunchtime because I don't like to miss a meal, but I know I'd lose.
  19. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

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    I'm slow these days. I can use the eternal rest.
  20. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    @forestinmatthews,

    Do you not understand the need to be understanding, compassionate, sympathetic and stfu?

    The educational process is a never-ending thing sir, and no matter what you know, there are many others out there that have no idea. The same questions keep coming up.

    Please open your mind and get a handle on this message:

    Because of the anti-gun actions in this country, there are more new gun owners than any time in history. In some places we have bought the shelves dry, right up until the point where Hillary bit the Dust.

    Congratulations if you were still reading up to this point.

    If this discussion seems offensive to you, the requirement for you to participate herein is totally suspended, without prejudice.
    MarkStar likes this.
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