I know that normally people always say to use buckshot for home defense. My problem is that I live in an apartment. So if anyone is entering my apartment, I will be within 15 yards at most. I would hate to use buckshot or a slug and shoot through a wall into a neighbor's apartment. So what do you guys think, am I best off leaving the shotgun for hunting and skeet or would 7 1/2 birdshot from my 12 gauge Mossy 500 be a good choice at this close range?
Birdshot Mossberg 500 or .38 special for HD?
- Thread starter honkey
- Start date
Problem with birdshot is that the pellets don't carry enough weight to penetrate much, even at close ranges. They will do a lot of tissue damage but might not penetrate organs. It's better than nothing but not optimal esp against a extreamely motivated individual.
I guess it would depend on the layout of the apt. and the direction you are most likely to shoot. i.e. is the apt long and narrow where most shots would be towards a door or outside wall/doorwall or is the layout more square where shots would likely be towards an interior wall?
Depending on your skills with a handgun, i would not feel undergunned with a .38.
I prefer slugs for HD because at the ranges I'm most likely to shoot buck will not spread much anyway, and it's easier to keep track of 1 round than 9.
I guess it would depend on the layout of the apt. and the direction you are most likely to shoot. i.e. is the apt long and narrow where most shots would be towards a door or outside wall/doorwall or is the layout more square where shots would likely be towards an interior wall?
Depending on your skills with a handgun, i would not feel undergunned with a .38.
I prefer slugs for HD because at the ranges I'm most likely to shoot buck will not spread much anyway, and it's easier to keep track of 1 round than 9.
The apartment is long and narrow.
I do not feel under gunned with my S&W 642 (what I carry). To be honest, I feel like a lot of the hand gun recommendations are getting out of hand with a lot of the advice online these days. It is almost like people believe anything smaller than .357 magnum will not do the job anymore.
I kind of figured the birdshot would be too weak, but it was just a thought since I feel like it would be irresponsible of me to use buckshot or slugs with my neighbors being in such close proximity.
I do not feel under gunned with my S&W 642 (what I carry). To be honest, I feel like a lot of the hand gun recommendations are getting out of hand with a lot of the advice online these days. It is almost like people believe anything smaller than .357 magnum will not do the job anymore.
I kind of figured the birdshot would be too weak, but it was just a thought since I feel like it would be irresponsible of me to use buckshot or slugs with my neighbors being in such close proximity.
What is the exterior construction of the apartment building? Front and back, not toward any neighbors.
Is your apartment built to current fire codes where there must be TWO layers of sheetrock on either side of the wall studs?
Have you gone to boxotruth.com and checked out all their real-world testing?
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
Is your apartment built to current fire codes where there must be TWO layers of sheetrock on either side of the wall studs?
Have you gone to boxotruth.com and checked out all their real-world testing?
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
nitesite said:
The direction I would most likely be firing would be from my bedroom into the living room/hallway. The wall beyond the living room goes into the entrance of the apartment complex. I have a neighbor to the side and a neighbor below. I am not sure about fire codes, but the apartment was built in the late '70's and the walls appear pretty thin based on how much noise I can hear when someone enters the building and walks up the stairs.
I hadn't seen that site before. I will check it out.
bubba in c.a.
.270 WIN
Birdshot is the worst of both worlds--it will penetrate drywall and won`t stop a motivated attacker. May you be blessed to only be attacked by unmotivated people!
Be that as it may, if I had a choice between birdshot and a 38 , I would go for the shotgun.
1) Intimidation power--the perp doesn`t know I don`t have buckshot.
2) Likelyhood of hitting the perp goes way up with a long gun rather than a handgun.
3) if all else fails, the shotgun makes a dandy club.
If by some set of circumstances I had to use birdshot, I would plan on more than one shot and the aim point would be high center mass with the follow up shots climbing up towards the neck. Expect a bloody mess. Another tactic might be to shove the barrel into his torso or neck as you pull the trigger.
Either way, I`d preffer to use 4 or 1 buckshot and tip the balance in my favor.
Be that as it may, if I had a choice between birdshot and a 38 , I would go for the shotgun.
1) Intimidation power--the perp doesn`t know I don`t have buckshot.
2) Likelyhood of hitting the perp goes way up with a long gun rather than a handgun.
3) if all else fails, the shotgun makes a dandy club.
If by some set of circumstances I had to use birdshot, I would plan on more than one shot and the aim point would be high center mass with the follow up shots climbing up towards the neck. Expect a bloody mess. Another tactic might be to shove the barrel into his torso or neck as you pull the trigger.
Either way, I`d preffer to use 4 or 1 buckshot and tip the balance in my favor.
Kungfunerd
.410
Go with #4 Buck.
DEFINITELY not Slugs
DEFINITELY not Slugs
Load the .38 with Glasers Saftey slugs if you can find them, or Federal Premium Guard Dog ammo. Both are designed to prevent over penetration.
Another option you might consider is a Magnum Turkey load. Load the 500 with a magnum turkey load of 4's or 5's, put a full choke in and rest easy. As far as recoil goes, there are not many loads out there that recoil more than a 12 gauge turkey load, but I have killed alot of turkeys and do not remember any recoil, and I shoot an 835 with a 3 1/2", 2 ounce load of 5's. Adrenalin is a wonderful thing. At 10 yds, expect a pattern about 12" - 18" wide, if that.
Winchester 3" turkey loads run about 1300 fps at the muzzle. They have 1 3/4 ounce of either #4, #5, or #6 shot in them.
My HD shotgun for years was a Mossy 500 with a 20" turkey barrel, a full choke, and loaded with Winchester Supreme XX Magnum anti-turkey loads and never for a minute felt under gunned.
As always, be aware of your background, but with the scenario you described, you should be fine.
Another option you might consider is a Magnum Turkey load. Load the 500 with a magnum turkey load of 4's or 5's, put a full choke in and rest easy. As far as recoil goes, there are not many loads out there that recoil more than a 12 gauge turkey load, but I have killed alot of turkeys and do not remember any recoil, and I shoot an 835 with a 3 1/2", 2 ounce load of 5's. Adrenalin is a wonderful thing. At 10 yds, expect a pattern about 12" - 18" wide, if that.
Winchester 3" turkey loads run about 1300 fps at the muzzle. They have 1 3/4 ounce of either #4, #5, or #6 shot in them.
My HD shotgun for years was a Mossy 500 with a 20" turkey barrel, a full choke, and loaded with Winchester Supreme XX Magnum anti-turkey loads and never for a minute felt under gunned.
As always, be aware of your background, but with the scenario you described, you should be fine.
I load my HD shotgun with #8. I may get a lot of disagreement on this but, #8 at 1200+ FPS from 30 FT should stop them and if not then then I have more rounds to finish it with. They may not be dead but any forward movement at that point should cease.
I do not in anyway feel undergunned with this.
My EDC and nightstand gun is a .380 and again I do not feel undergunned with this either.
One last thought, anyone that feels this is not enough firepower is welcome to break in and test my #8's or .380 at 30FT
I do not in anyway feel undergunned with this.
My EDC and nightstand gun is a .380 and again I do not feel undergunned with this either.
One last thought, anyone that feels this is not enough firepower is welcome to break in and test my #8's or .380 at 30FT
Some good advice in here goin both directions, like the "Tactical" Louisville Slugger! 
Good find Oli!
Heres another thought on the birdshot. Bubba mentione dplan on more than one shot. I would plan that anyway. But what will happen, each consecutive shot will penetrate depper than the first. To incapacitate a threat, air needs to go in and blood needs to come out. A single shot of birdshot may not do this, buit close enough, escaping gases from the muzzle can do just that. Be aware that if youre that close, weapons retention becomes an issue too. But back to birdshot. A follow up shot to an already affected area will penetrate deeper as will each shot following. It will cause a greater wound tract and can potentially penetrate to vital organs. At that point there may not be a temporary cavity like you would see from a single shot.
There is another alternative. And here is where I may take some flack. Less Lethal ammunition. There are pros and cons and would recommend some careful research before deciding on less lethal. We are fortunate though to have a rep from LightField Ammo on the forum who would be happy to help should you have questions.
I also totally agree with NiteSite, check out the Box O Truth when youre able! Really interesting stuff!!!
Good find Oli! Heres another thought on the birdshot. Bubba mentione dplan on more than one shot. I would plan that anyway. But what will happen, each consecutive shot will penetrate depper than the first. To incapacitate a threat, air needs to go in and blood needs to come out. A single shot of birdshot may not do this, buit close enough, escaping gases from the muzzle can do just that. Be aware that if youre that close, weapons retention becomes an issue too. But back to birdshot. A follow up shot to an already affected area will penetrate deeper as will each shot following. It will cause a greater wound tract and can potentially penetrate to vital organs. At that point there may not be a temporary cavity like you would see from a single shot.
There is another alternative. And here is where I may take some flack. Less Lethal ammunition. There are pros and cons and would recommend some careful research before deciding on less lethal. We are fortunate though to have a rep from LightField Ammo on the forum who would be happy to help should you have questions.
I also totally agree with NiteSite, check out the Box O Truth when youre able! Really interesting stuff!!!
honkey said:
Any ammo that is effective against a human will go through walls, your're .38 spl is no different. You still need to be careful of what's behind the area you are shooting. In an apartment, I'd probably take a defensive position in the spot(s) with the lowest probability of shooting somebody in the next apartment.
Good luck!!
EDIT: Box O' Truth agrees that anything effective against a human will go through walls. Just thought I'd mention.
mingaa
Raconteur
I'm in brick home from 1938. Built like, well, a ton of bricks - add plaster and lath walls and the fact that all houses on the block are similar and all I really have to worry about in my sightlines are wondows and possibly doors. The doors are solid and would probably take a lot of energy out of any round thT I'd be shooting (shotgun, 40 or 9) - no slugs or rifles unless it's ZoMbIe time of course!!
Love Box of Truth guys too - btw. Wish I had the property and time to do some of what they do. Until then, I'll keep reading!
Love Box of Truth guys too - btw. Wish I had the property and time to do some of what they do. Until then, I'll keep reading!