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Breacher, Stand-Off Devices, Tactical Chokes

Discussion in 'Tactical And Home Defense' started by FOX3, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. FOX3

    FOX3 .410

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    The jagged cookie cutter thingy you see on the front of some breaching shotguns is actually a stand-off device. When breaching a metal door you need to have a small amount of stand-off from the door/lock IOT (in order to, military jargon) complete the breach successfully. If you put your muzzle directly against the door you chance jamming the barrel with slag and fragments.
    Number 2, the "cookie cutter" is an excellent tool for breaching windows and also muzzle tapping your enemy in the chest without clogging the barrel of your beautiful Mossberg.

    Although not necessary for a proper breach it helps when under stress and your nerves are firing 1 million times a min.

    With the cookie cutter place the jagged edge against the door, turn the gun till it's at a 45degrees horizontally and 45degrees vertically with the door, pointing away from the door frame.

    Without the "cookie cutter" all the same except create about 1" of stand off.
  2. DHonovich

    DHonovich Founder Staff Member Administrator Sponsor "Philanthropist"

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    6,917
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    Thanks for posting up this information. I think this is one option that a lot of people don't fully understand why some users have it. Is there a particular brand or one that you like or recommend?
  3. FOX3

    FOX3 .410

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    As far as I know there isn't a specific attachment, unless the barrel is threaded. I don't know of any particular brand that's better than another. The easiest way to do it is to buy the gun with the package, or purchase a new barrel with the attachment.
  4. E4x4Eric

    E4x4Eric .270 WIN

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    I find this very interesting. Now I need to find a machine shop :idea:
  5. DHonovich

    DHonovich Founder Staff Member Administrator Sponsor "Philanthropist"

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    6,917
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyfNgfCiT4I[/youtube]
  6. DoubleTap

    DoubleTap Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    127
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    I live in NY and was wondering are these "cookie cutter" things legal? i know you need to have them on assault rifles but i want sure about shotguns.
  7. Rossignol

    Rossignol The Original Sheriff Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator Sponsor

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    12,760
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    I believe they are totally legal, and havent seen anything on Mossbergs site about not being available for sale in certain states.
  8. FOX3

    FOX3 .410

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    94
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    As far as I know and from the little research I did there is no legality issue, unless you use it to aid in illegal activities.
  9. DoubleTap

    DoubleTap Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    127
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    thanks for the response. do you know if there is one company that is better then the rest or is this a standard thing that you really can mess up?
  10. Rossignol

    Rossignol The Original Sheriff Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator Sponsor

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    12,760
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    Well, do you plan to be blowin doors off hinges? :) I havent recently, so I couldnt tell ya if one is better than another, but on Mossys theyre fixed (really wish they werent)
  11. DoubleTap

    DoubleTap Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    127
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    hopefully not i just dont want something that would break the first time i shoot
  12. m24shooter

    m24shooter .270 WIN

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    The Mossberg breacher barrels as on the 500 Tactical Cruiser have the breacher permanently attached to the shotgun due to NFA regulations.
    The teeth on it help to keep the muzzle from skidding across metal doors and gates, and are used to "bite" into a wood door or frame. They can be used for muzzle thumps, but I would really advise the average user NOT to do so unless they've had some training. It is really easy to turn a muzzle thump into an ND. It also requires the user to be very, very close and unless you've had some retention training you may well end up looking at your own shotgun now pointing at you.
    The whole point of the muzzle device is to keep the shotgun properly indexed for breaching, and also to allow the gasses to escape and keep the barrel from mushrooming. If you have to eyeball it and hold the muzzle off without a mechanical standoff it is real easy to end up hurting yourself or someone else, or completely botching the breach job. If you jam a plain muzzle up against a door, you run a big risk of screwing up the barrel or yourself, or both.
    As far as why they are on there to some extent Mossberg is creating them for those that need to do ballistic breaching. However, they have marketed them to the general public as a big, scary, HSLD looking thing that some people will buy just because of its looks. Unless you're breaching, it really doesn't have a useful purpose. That said, I have no problem with people buying them if they want them.
    As for preferred brands, they all pretty much do the same thing. You can get them as OEM, which is probably the best/easiest way. You can have someone make a breaching attachment for you. King Arms, Vang Comp, and a few others have breaching devices/attachments. There are some breaching chokes as those found on the Remington Tactical that basically are an external screw-in choke and breaching device.
    As for it breaking the first time you try it, Mossberg has them "permanently" attached. If they are removed, you now have an unregistered SBS, which you don't want. I've never heard of any of them falling off. If you're thinking about it breaking during ballistic breaching I would strongly urge you to not even try to do this unless you have had some training and are properly equipped. It is a very easy way to get some OJT in blood loss management.
  13. hunter72

    hunter72 .270 WIN

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    I have a couple of the USGI version, they are like chokes and are cyln. bore. Mine are pretty "sand worn" :?
    we called them "melon ballers" make great dents in the foremelon of baddys :twisted: .

    oh they are accuchokes, the standard Mossberg choke
  14. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri 20g "Philanthropist"

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    Oh, I don't know ... I think they work pretty well for larynx surgery on attackers. :twisted:
  15. m24shooter

    m24shooter .270 WIN

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    Admittedly so, but that's why I also said this:
    For someone who's been trained no problem. For Joe Muckenfuch who hasn't had training and is using a hardware solution to a software problem: not so much.
    We just had an OIS locally where an unarmed suspect was shot in the chest and died due to an ND when the officer got in close and went hands on with the subject. So even with training once you go kinetic there is a lot of potential downside.
  16. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri 20g "Philanthropist"

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    792
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    Very true, m24. Personally, I don't recommend planning to use a firearm for self-defense at all unless you have the training to go with it. You run the very real risk, as you pointed out, of your own firearm being used against you.
  17. sjohnny

    sjohnny .410

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    There are various degrees of training. The training necessary to effectively use a firearm to defend yourself in the vast majority of instances is a far cry from the training necessary to effectively go close in and larynectomize people. There are millions of folks who can effectively defend themselves with a firearm who are nowhere near ready to try to use their firearm as an impact or edged weapon.
  18. hunter72

    hunter72 .270 WIN

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    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    IMHO, I agree with the above. "Training" is what you have availible. A person does not need .Mil training or Thunder Ranch or Gunsight or any other "school"
    WHile I highly suggest them if they are at all possible. While "doctrine" becomes that by practice and those you have done it for real, it doesnt make it the only way.
    I am of the opinion that if an individual studies on his own reads what information is availible and GOES TO THE RANGE and impliments what he has learned with LOTS AND LOTS of practice , he is then trained to defend himself.
    Close quarters is NOT for everyone I assure you. I have attended several schools and learned conflicting things from different folks, its up to me to take what Ilearn, practice it and do what works for me.

    Steve
  19. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri 20g "Philanthropist"

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    792
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    I agree wholeheartedly that there are varying degrees of training. Personally, I'm a fan of as much training as you can find time for an afford from the best possible instructors available. Unfortunately, I've had the "opportunity" to see people with so little training that they are a danger to themselves and others (and not others who are a threat to them).

    The unfortunate thing about close quarters not being for everyone - and I agree that it isn't - is that most self-defense situations will be in "close quarters".

    So, I'll go back to my previous premise about training. If we can agree that the highest percentage of self-defense situations are close quarters encounters then I hope we can also agree that those who intend to (potentially) defend themselves with a gun need to train (whatever training may be available to them) to fight with that gun at close quarters and also need to practice those close quarters tactics as frequently as possible.
  20. hunter72

    hunter72 .270 WIN

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    103
    Re: Cookie Cutter thingy

    We certainly do agree, just differently lol.
    IN THE CASE OF THOSE THAT ARE DANGEROUS TO THEMSELVES, i AGREE , ITS WORSE WHEN THEY HARE TRAINING AS AN LEO.
    CAPS LOCK SUCKS LOL. SORRY.
    anyway, I feel for myself it is my place to offer as much in the ways of idea's and basics as I can to help that guy at the range that looks like he is going to shoot his foot off.

    Training is key, its the key and the key that will probably save your but when you do defend your home (Sans castle doctrine).

    By close quarters I define that as hand to hand, Most folks will never be able to train for a hand to hand situation in the home much less anywhere else.
    7 yds is an average shooting distance, I train and train others to create distance if at all possible to prevent H2H.
    One of the depts that I work with is really under funded one is fully funded and training a priority. The funded depts send their officers to Big name schools, and have many many more training sessions per month. the less funded dept offers 3 firearms training sessions (paid) per year.
    We agree get the best you can afford and listen to those that have went before you.
    My point was that a certificate from a school no more means your trained than buying a t-shirt. It means you paid money for them. Its up to you to continue what you learned and apply it.
    A person is absolutly able to train themselves with study, practice and application .
    A close friend of mine who owns and runs/teaches at a major school has said many times that in many cases he would rather see a person take the cost of an intermediate class and buy ammo and go to the range and bang away.

    tHE MAIN PROBLEM WITH WHAT i AM SAYING IS THAT THERE ARE TO MANY YOU TUBE VIDEOS AND MISINFORMATION ON THE WEB FOR A TRUE BEGINER TO UNDERSTAND FUNDIMENTALS.

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