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Canadian 715T owners about to get the shaft!!!!

A

Anonymous

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Due to the impending import of mossbergs new duck commander 22LR pistol that happens to take the 715T mags, we are on the door step of having our 25 round mags become prohib. Once the RCMP classifies them as prohib due to the fact that they work in the pistol and our retarded laws limit them to 10 rounds, the 715T will also be limited to 10 rounds. Having just learned this I will most likely be selling my 715T and moving on to a ruger.


Just for full disclosure, member zuece requested to have his account deleted here at mossbergowners.com

I carried out that request.
 
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here is the letter I sent to mossberg if anyone else would like to do the same:

"To Whom It May Concern in Management, O.F. Mossberg & Sons,

I am writing to you with concern about your new Duck Commander pistol and its magazine it shares with the 715T 22LR rifles.

As a Canadian firearm owner who is knowledgeable about Canadian firearms laws, I can tell you that 22LR rifles currently have no magazine limit and all handguns, including 22LR handguns, are limited to 10 rounds. This is as per Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted - Part 4, PROHIBITED DEVICES, Former Prohibited Weapons Order No.9, Subsection 3:

• 3. (1) Any cartridge magazine
(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.

For your convenience, a copy of the entire document has been attached at the end of this letter.

It is a fairly accurate to say that most law abiding Canadian gun owners do not hold their RPAL license, which allows them to legally purchase restricted firearms in Canada. As you are most likely already aware, a non-restricted rifle can be used both in the bush and at a certified range, whereas a restricted firearm can only be used in a range certified for restricted use.

That being said, a small fraction of Canadian citizens hold their prohibited license, which restricts them to owning, but not legally using and enjoying their prohibited firearms. If Mossberg imports the Duck Commander Pistol into Canada advertising that they use the same magazine as the 715T 22LR rifle, the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) firearms lab will classify the 715T 22LR rifle magazine as a prohibited device and both firearms will be limited to 10 rounds. This will effectively and immediately turn law abiding citizens into paperwork criminals for simply owning the 25 rounds magazine that by design, until the 715P was created, fit only into the 715T 22LR.

Offering a ten round replacement magazine to all current owners will not result in satisfied customers, as those that had originally purchased the firearm did so with the knowledge of its legal 25 round magazine. Giving these very same owners a replacement magazine following the reclassification of it 25 round predecessor will do little to alleviate the problems associated with the introduction of the 715P into the Canadian market, and may result in a direct loss of sales for the 715T 22LR, replacement magazines for the 715T 22LR, and above all ownership of the 715T 22LR in Canada.

The Duck Commander will only sell to a very small market in Canada where the 715T 22LR rifle sells to all licensed firearms owners (almost 2 million Canadians).

I would suggest not exporting any Duck Commander pistols to be sold to the Canadian market until Mossberg management has:

- Contacted the RCMP Firearms lab and confirmed my previously mentioned magazine classifications;
- Arrives at a sound conclusion to avoid reclassification of 715T 22LR rifle magazines.

The precedent with 22LR rifle magazine capacity and their ability to be interchanged between restricted firearms and non-restricted firearms has already been set in Canada with the Ruger BX-25 round magazine being advertised as fitting both the Ruger SR22 rifle and Charger pistol variant. As an owner of the 715T 22LR and several 25 round magazines, I will sell this rifle and switch to the Ruger 10/22 (which currently has legal 25 round magazine available) should the current 25 round magazine used in the 715T 22LR become a prohibited device in Canada.

Thank you for your time and I eagerly await your response.

Sincerely,
 
That sucks.

I understand you frustration but OFM is not the only to do this.

The Ruger Charger pistol uses the same mag as the 10/22. At least one Kel-Tec carbine uses Glock 9mm mags, etc. I'm sure there are others. While it may be a problem in Canada, it's a big selling point in the US at least.
 
MikeD said:
That sucks.

I understand you frustration but OFM is not the only to do this.

The Ruger Charger pistol uses the same mag as the 10/22. At least one Kel-Tec carbine uses Glock 9mm mags, etc. I'm sure there are others. While it may be a problem in Canada, it's a big selling point in the US at least.
Here's the crappy part Mike, the handgun Glock, Sig or S&W mags used in the Sub 2000 are already limited to 10 rds up here. With the 22LR, there is no restriction on mag capacity as long as its in a rifle of the prescribed legal length. So, then all associated / interchangeable mags would be limited to 10 only. You're right though, makes great sense for those without such stupid, arbitrary rules as ours.

You should see our prohib list, here is the Wiki page if you'd like to have a looksee what we have to deal with here; scroll about 1/2 way down the page to see the list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada

Zeuce, thanks for taking the time to write that letter...I just might steal that, edit it a bit and fire one off to OFM & Sons myself. Not that I'm affected by it, but there will thousands that are. I feel sorry for those folks that will be forced to turn in mags if they bought their gun before the Long Gun Registry was scrapped...because you know they'll come a knockin'. We both know that registry still lives in Quebec and who knows where else...............
 
SO mossberg has begun asking 715T owners to send in their 25 round mags in exchange for a 10 round mag! WTF mossberg really? you think we will actually do that? The RCMP have not officially announced the 25 rd mags prohib yet so I dont see how they can legally do that. Anyways because of this bull$#!+ I have sold my 715T as well as my MVP and I will never purchase another mossberg product as long as I live.
 
Just for full disclosure, member zuece requested to have his account deleted here at mossbergowners.com

I carried out that request.
 
John A. said:
Just for full disclosure, member zuece requested to no longer have an account here at mossbergowners.com

I carried out that request.

Well, I guess that's that then... :cool:
 
That's the best thing you could have done.
 
All you unhappy gun owners in Canada could always renounce your Canadian citizenship and move to the US. There are no income taxes in Florida, Texas, Washington State, Alaska, Nevada, South Dakota, and Wyoming. I recommend you just walk across the border and come in illegally. That way, you get the most benefits from being in the United States. :D
 
Again, Sorry for the confustion, Can I use the 30rd mag in Canada?
You can use a 715T mag of any capacity for now. The only issue will be if/when Mossberg releases the mag compatible pistol in Canada...pending the approval of the CFP (RCMP) of course. If the OFM pistol is approved for sale, then you will be limited to using a 10 rd mag legally. Not sure if the RCMP will go on a high capacity mag hunt after that or not but you take your chances if you keep it after that time.

That's my best advice for the moment.
 
You are most welcome sir!
 
Hi all, As a frustrated 715T owner I sent a letter to the RCMP asking for clarification of the 25 round mag status as it pertains to the (hopefully not) arrival of the 715P into Canada...this the response I received. This announcement however has not been made public so really still unsure as to the LEGAL status of the mag. However I did contact a Mossberg dealer in Ontario who told me that if I send back my 25 round mags he will ship me back 10 round mags as compensation from Mossberg...


RCMP - Specialized Firearm Support Services (RCMP-SFSS) is the legal classification policy centre. I am authorized to speak on the subject of firearm legal classification issues on behalf of SFSS Section and the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP).
Let me identify myself and my job function to you. My name is William Etter. I hold the job position title of Chief Firearms Technologist, in the Specialized Firearms Support Services which is the technical authority in the subject area of assigning the applicable legal class to all firearms, devices and prohibited ammunition.
Your correspondence and the questions you posed to the Firearms Program have been forwarded to me to me for a response.
The Specialized Firearms Support Services Section is a component of the Firearms Investigative and Enforcement Services Directorate, RCMP - Canadian Firearms Program.
QUESTION
I have a question concerning the status of the 25 round magazine which is currently being sold with the Mossberg 715T semi auto 22 lr. carbine.
Recently Mossberg has introduced into the U.S.A. (only) at this point a 715P semi auto 22 lr. pistol which apparently uses the same 25 round magazines as the 715T.
My question is, since the 715P has not been introduced into Canada at this point does that make the current 25 round magazine for the 715T carbine prohibited?
Without anyone having a definitive answer to date, I would just like some clarification on the matter if possible.
Thank you for your time,
ANSWER
The Mossberg 715T firearm model is manufactured in both rifle and handgun configurations. The magazine is interchangeable between the two configurations and is considered a dual purpose handgun / rifle magazine and the more restrictive handgun cartridge capacity limit applies.
Because handguns are limited to a ten shot magazine capacity in accordance with the CC PART III, S. 84, Regulations PART 4 Para 3. (1) (b) "The Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations", this limits the magazine capacity for the dual purpose rifle / handgun cartidge magazine to ten (10) shots, despite the firearm being designed to use rim-fire ammunition.
The firm Mossberg consulted with RCMP-SFSS in 2010 & 2012 and were advised that the importation of a "handgun" version of the 715T into North America would complicate their business model due to cartridge magazine issues under Canadian Law. They viewed this outcome as counter-productive and discontinued development (by CBC in Brazil) of the handgun (restricted version) completely. It was reported by Mosberg that no examples were brought to North America. (FRT # 131172)
The matter lay fallow until late 2013 when there was further discussion at the corporate Mossberg HQ level and a decision was made to re-instate the plan and continue to market and sell the CBC Manufactured, Brand name Mossberg, Model 715P (Pistol) firearm and the 715T firearm.
It should be noted that the Mossberg 715T is nothing but a "Dress-up" tactical kit surrounding a Mossberg 702 Plinkster, implicating the same 25 shot cartridge magazine sold for use with the 702 Plinkster series of firearms.
Mossberg Sales and Marketing Branch were advised of this problem and the Canadian cartridge magazine implications well before manufacture and distribution of the 715P firearm took place in 2013. A Mossberg Corporate decision was made to proceed with the sales and marketing in North America of this "Pistol" in 2013.
SPECIFIC QUESTION
My question is, since the 715P has not been introduced into Canada at this point does that make the current 25 round magazine for the 715T carbine prohibited?
ANSWER
Yes. The 25 shot cartridge magazine for the entire family of Mossberg Mossberg Model -715T, Mossberg 715P (restricted) Handgun and Model 702 Plinkster series of firearms, must be reduced to not more than 10 shots of the kind or type for which the cartridge magazine was designed.
Mossberg is fully aware of these facts and have a work around solution (which was revealed to me) consisting of replacing all 25 shot cartridge magazines in the hands of Canadian owners with a ten (10) shot magazine. I cannot speak for Mossberg; however, they are aware of the problem and have a contingency plan.
For further information from the appropriate authority on Mossberg’s “plan” to replace cartridge magazines, contact your Mossberg stocking dealer.
I hope this helps.
William Etter
William (Bill) Etter
Chief Firearms Technologist
Specialized Firearms Support Services
Firearms Investigative & Enforcement Services Directorate
RCMP - CFP
Specialized Policing Services
613-993-6684
 
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