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Effectronics © - Re: 4th Amendment

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Related' started by Scoop, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

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    1,480
    In the "Good Morning" thread I found the following posted by @MikeD :

    Good morning!!
    ...
    On a more serious note, we had a homicide on my street over the holiday. A woman was found dead in her bouse on Monday and it is now ruled a homicide.

    Some detectives came to my house after noticing my cameras.

    Apparently I am the only one that they found who still had footage going back to Thanksgiving. We reviewed a small amount hoping to see a person of interest on the street. They said they may be back to look some more but I have not heard back from them or the state police crime lab (who they said may be in contact with me) Hopefully it is an isolated incident amoungst people that knew each other. They have not released much yet that I have seen. I'm assuming that no followup means they decided there was not enough value in whatever I may have captured. This took place at the far end of the street which is actually a different city from my end.

    They guy they were looking to see is a guy that is frequently in the neighborhood looking for odd jobs. Not sure if he is an actual suspect or just someone that may have some knowledge. Either way, this is just another reminder of how bad things are declining in the area.

    Stay alert and safe out there!

    Edit: One of the detectives asked to take the DVR tonight. Hopefully they can get what they need off of it.

    _____________________________________________________
    [​IMG]
    First of all I commend you, Mike, in your efforts to help with the investigation.
    I'd like to hear more about how access to your video system was handled.

    My concern is that access to technology demanded by the government or law enforcement without warrants and PC are common and overreaching.

    The pieces of our lives that we kept in the old days on papers such as letters. financial data, personal and medical info, contacts, and other private matters do now reside on portable electronic media. Everybody has phones, pads, watches, monitors, GPS, automotive recordings that are constantly recording every aspect of our lives.

    I believe these aspects are protected under the meaning of "papers."

    Judge Andrew Napolitano [Fox News] takes the even more liberal [in the good sense] view that your tech machines are indeed "effects" mentioned in the 4th Am.

    So, to you, Mike, and all the others that may have experience in this matter.

    - Have you ever had your personal electronic effects [effectronics © ] used by the govt?
    - How was the request proffered?
    - Was there written paper work? Warrants or letters or receipts?
    - If you hesitated, resisted, or refused how was that met?
    - How far would your refusal go if you absolutely DID NOT WANT them to review your effectronics?
    - Would you insist that viewing be done in your presence?
    - Would you insist that you could edit video or albums to only pertinent info to protect the personal?
    - Would you have a lawyer protect your interests?

    There are many more questions and opinions that will come out of discussions on this subject in the near future.

    Remember in the San Bernardino shootings 2 years ago there was a big stink about Apple Inc. refusing to help hack the data protection on the perps phones? As much as I would have loved for the info to be available, I agree w/ Apple in their refusal. If I buy a phone from a vendor w/ their promise and my expectation of privacy, I would be very upset if they breached that promise.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  2. DarkPassenger308

    DarkPassenger308 .270 WIN Supporter

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    207
    The EFF does really good work and I support them financially. I travel for work and cross international borders at least 10 times per year. I have the same background image on my phone.

    Rules go out the window when standing in a customs line. I guess I’m lucky, I’ve never been asked to surrender devices or passwords. I’ve been asked about some of the work hardware I often have with me, such as fiber optic cabling, but I’ve always been able to give satisfactory answers. Not too many Customs agents know anything about computers beyond apps on their own cell phones, so it’s not hard for me to impress them with big words.

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  3. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw .30-06 Supporter

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    Been there, done that!

    It always worked, except when I met one TSA guy who understood what I was talking about. Actually, since I gave correct information, he didn't look at anything too hard.

    Most were like the guy that was totally confused by my visible light source. I had to pull out a jumper and show him. He still didn't get it.
    DarkPassenger308 likes this.
  4. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

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    1,480
    Holy Memory Storm, Batman! I haven't been in contact w/ EFF for ages.
    I see that you may be too young to remember Usenet of the mid -'90s that was popular before full-blown internet. Basically it was a modem-served, text-only bunch of servers and users that belonged to newsgroups on various subjects to exchange info. My favorite ones were on ballistics and English grammar.

    At one point I discovered the sale of credit info in innocent newsgroups. I called EFF and had some discussions of philosophical and legal considerations concerning this new universe and they were a great help w/ pros and cons of all my thoughts. I eventually pointed the fibbies to some places of interest. I don't thing it did much to slow the market of stolen ID and credit info tho'.

    EFF were good folks.
    DarkPassenger308 likes this.
  5. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    11,494
    They never demanded nor pressured me to give them video. They saw my cameras kn the house and asked. It was a full day between the time of first contact and when they asked if they could take the DVR and analyze it. I was never asked to even stop recording (which overwrites itself when the disk is full ). Not sure If they would have gotten a warrent if I refused.

    Accordinv to the Detective, he offloaded the video into AVI files using the DVR's backup option. What was done with them after that I am uncertain.

    In this case I felt it was OK to help. I do agree that the use of electronic securify devices as well as convienience devices are becomming more and more popular and more and more an invasion of privicy.

    I absolutely refuse to allow any internet enabled listening device in my house. That includes voice remotes, cortana, etc.. Not that I am trying to hide anything.....but I am.

    Its a slippery slope. Once that device picks up my voice, I have no idea where its going, who its going to or what its being used for. So.ething you say jn jest may come back to haunt you under the right circumstances.

    I give up enough already just be using a smartphone, email and posting on web forums/social media. I dont even trust that my phone is not recording things I do. Just becase you hit the power button does not mean the phone is not still performing some tasks. Unfortunately we are in an age where it is almost imposible to go without them. I work in IT, its required that I maintain the tether to perform my job functions. I don't really like it but that is the path I chose. I do however control what aps I use etc. I just recently removed a flashlight app that mept turning on my location services...and it was not granted permission to do it. Yet when I removed it, the problem went away.

    I will say if I am ever stopped and asked to hand over my cell phone, they will need a warrent for me to unlock it.

    We are at a very scary time technologically. AI is advancing at an alarming rate. While this may seem really cool, there is always a dark side in term of weaponization, evesdropping, data colection, etc. Its already being done and will only become more intrusive.
  6. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw .30-06 Supporter

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  7. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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  8. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

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    I am going to post the last paragraphs of Pawpaw's post above. You gotta love the last line.

    ERIC LIEBERMAN
    Tech and Law Reporter 2:26 PM 11/30/2017
    ...
    “I note that Mr Colella’s supervisors knew that he placed his PDA in the foil bag and that they should have known the effect that this action would have on the PDA device,” Riordan continues in his findings. “However, I can find no plausible explanation why Mr Colella would create a faraday cage around his PDA, except to obstruct the GPS collecting capacity of the device. Mr Colella appears to have been deliberately mischievous in acting in this manner.”

    Colella protested the use of the GPS tracker since it was first introduced and implemented to the company, but higher ups apparently did not see this — nor the fact that they knew of his use of the bags — as suspicious.

    “I cannot understand why Aroona condoned this practice but it clearly shows that Mr Colella did not want to be tracked,” said Riordan.

    Colella now reportedly works as an Uber driver.
    DarkPassenger308 likes this.
  9. OhioArcher

    OhioArcher Where's da fishes? Forum Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    3,817
  10. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    No.

    [​IMG]
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  11. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    13,167
  12. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    Ten or 15 years ago i overheard some conversation at a bar near my cabin in upper michigan. The president was on TV. The discussion started as a debate about how the signal gets boosted when the pres is on but sucks the rest of the time then moved on to con trails and ended with a discussion about how they have to wrap their cash in foil and bury it around their property because the gov can fly over and scan it using the strips that the vending machines use to diffentiate bills.

    I dont think they were trolling us as I have heard similar discussions up there from various people.
    ripjack13 likes this.
  13. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter

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    What is really scary to me is the number of young folks that think all of this electronic snooping and tracking is ok. Of course they are of the mindset that the government SHOULD know all at all times. After all, the government just wants to be there to help you from the time you get up till the time you retire at night. Oh hell, who am I kidding, they want to read our minds when we are sleeping as well.
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  14. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    It is as if they do not know what the word govern means.

    Everybody wants control and everybody wants undesirable things and people to be controlled.

    And they want the government to do it. After all isn't that why folks (all the old people who are actually working) pay taxes?

    This country exists only because people wanted less government control . . . not more.
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