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FBI Study About Cop Attackers & Their Weapons

I really wasn't wanting to lock the topic. Things had died down since yesterday and there's no reason to continue to stirring shit.

Now I'm thinking about locking accounts instead.

I have a better idea....
Brb....
 
I really wasn't wanting to lock the topic. Things had died down since yesterday and there's no reason to continue to stirring shit.

Now I'm thinking about locking accounts instead.

John, please PM me (if you wish) and tell me what accounts you are thinking to lock. Thanks.

It sounds like there are more than one you are considering.
 
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If reference to the original post, I'd like to point out something that really gripes me about almost all police use of firearms: MISSES

For reference I'll quote from the original:
Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% “regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year,” the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and “street corners in known drug-trafficking areas.”

One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers “go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything.”

In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this “may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills,” the study says.

The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.
-- END QUOTE--​

Anything jump out at you? There were 7 bullets that left the officer's firearm, none of which hit the perp, and all of which need to be accounted for to see what collateral injury or damage was inflicted upon the innocent populace that LEO is sworn to protect. And this was done with a handgun. Think of how many misses there are from a burst from a SWAT rifle on buuuuuuurp!

When I get enuff time I'm going to do some research on LEO misses and their accountability. I'll get back to you. If anyone has any anecdotes or knowledge of the consequences of cops missing, please let us know.
 
This is an older one but I still remember it. Bullet ratio was about 400 to 1 and the Fatal shot was self-inflicted.
################

February 26, 2010
from the FRESNO BEE

Ricky Liles was ready to kill when sheriff's deputies knocked on his door.

The 51-year-old Minkler resident, suspected in a series of arson fires and shootings, had told his wife several times in recent months that he intended to shoot officers and then take his own life rather than go to prison.

Officials provided details Friday about the gunbattle during which Liles killed one deputy, critically injured a police officer and wounded another deputy before killing himself.

Investigators attempting to serve a search warrant at Liles' mobile home Thursday morning were met by a barrage of gunfire from Liles. Then, according to police, Liles told his wife that he was sorry for what he was about to do. He told her that he loved her. She told him she loved him.

Diane Liles took cover in the bedroom and laid face-down on the floor. She later told police she didn't try to stop her husband because she didn't think he would listen.

As at least 150 officers from nearly a dozen agencies soon surrounded the mobile home off Highway 180 about six miles east of Sanger, Ricky Liles holed up in the living room. He had stashed away six handguns and four rifles, police said.

Liles used two high-powered rifles -- both with scopes -- to shoot and kill Fresno County deputy Joel Wahlenmaier, 49, and wound deputy Mark Harris, 48.

About 30 minutes later, in another hail of gunfire, Liles also shot Reedley police officer Javier Bejar in the head from a distance of about 80 yards, police said. Bejar, 28, had taken cover behind a police car when he was shot. He is not expected to survive.

Over about two hours, some two dozen officers fired about 400 bullets into the home, police said. But in the end, police say, Liles ended his own life. Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer said his body was found face down in the bedroom with a handgun next to him. His only wound was a single bullet to the head.

His wife -- to the surprise of many officers -- walked out of the mobile home alive. She later told police that Liles had been taking several medications, including Prozac.

"She said he had become increasingly more paranoid as of late and would frequently look outside the window to see who was outside," Dyer said.

Liles rarely came out during daylight hours, according to Don Burkett, who works in Minkler.

Fresno police say they are investigating whether Liles had mental health problems.

Dyer said there was no indication that Diane Liles, who had been married to Ricky Liles for three years, assisted her husband in the attack on officers. He said she will not face criminal charges.

As Fresno police continued to investigate the shooting on Friday, families, friends and fellow law enforcement colleagues tried to make sense of what happened.

Wahlenmaier and Bejar are being hailed as heroes.

Bejar remained on life support Friday at Community Regional Medical Center in Fresno. His sister, Maricela Chavez, said doctors told her that there is no hope for recovery.

Fresno County Sheriff Margaret Mims said her department is reeling from Wahlenmaier's death. "We are all hurting right now," she said.

Harris, the injured sheriff's deputy, has been released from the hospital and is recovering.

Authorities had come to Liles' mobile home Thursday morning with a search warrant because he was suspected of setting a series of fires in the Minkler area and also was a suspect in half a dozen recent shootings, including one that injured a neighbor.

Seven sheriff's deputies and four state fire investigators went to the mobile home to serve the warrant.

Mims said the investigators had planned for how they would serve the warrant.

She said they were armed and were wearing protective vests when they approached the home.

"Unfortunately, things don't always go as planned," Mims said.

###############

I wish I had been there to film it because it had to be like that final scene from Bonnie and Clyde.

Well, except that all four hundred shots missed the couple!
 
Firing into a barricaded home is never likely to result in a good hit. And even if it were, the velocity is going to be decreased substantially due to the bullet penetrating walls and such. I'm not saying that it wouldn't still be deadly, but obviously less than if it weren't. Especially since the last paragraph said they were wearing armor.

There are actually very few ways to combat that.

I'm not sure how old the article is, but explosives and a drone would likely be more effective in that situation.
 
John I posted the byline and it says
February 26, 2010 from the FRESNO BEE, so yes the story is almost 9 years old.

But I remembered it clearly from the video on TV, because they shot so many times that little trailer was nothing but bullet holes when they got done. I believe the sheriff said that over 450 shots were fired.
 
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Think of how many misses there are from a burst from a SWAT rifle on buuuuuuurp!

When I get enuff time I'm going to do some research on LEO misses and their accountability. I'll get back to you. If anyone has any anecdotes or knowledge of the consequences of cops missing, please let us know.

Oh, my, check out for a month, and lookie the drama I missed!:mornin:

In any case, things may have changed. Generally, SWAT will only use full-auto in either very close, "Put him down NOW," scenarios, or, much more rarely, in very open spaces with few/no non-aggressors, and the perp is fleeing, and one or both parties are in a vehicle. Pretty much any violent-offender shooting, by an apprehension/SWAT team, inside a building, will fall under the former. Michael Vance, from Oklahoma, a couple of years ago, is an example of the latter. LEOs tend to have less liability, if they are, "acting in good faith," but can certainly be prosecuted, like the officer who had something profoundly stupid etched into the dustcover of his AR. Patterns of behavior and mindset play a big part.
 
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