First shotshell reloader, what to get?

[Stanislao]

My newfound trap hobby is getting... ridiculously expensive. Mind you that's while working on league day. Solution is obvious enough, 12 gauge reloading isn't hard and I'm even willing to experiment with shot dripping. Question is what reloading press to buy, preferably for under $100.

Through various local shops and online ads, I have found a used MEC 600 jr and a Pacific DL-155, both for $75. The MEC has just one bar and bushing, not sure about the Pacific Additionally, I have found a MEC 650, maddeningly rigged for 20 gauge and sold with some odd bar and bushing, for under $100. This makes me think that a 12 gauge MEC 650 can be found for something around my price range. Obviously the slow-as-it-is-cheap Lee Load-All is an option as well.

As someone who has no background in reloading, and would like to shoot six to ten boxes per week, which press should I get?

 

[Rossignol]

I began looking into reloading too in the recent past.

If I understand correctly, the lee load all is inexpensive and it works but if one can find a Mec at a reasonable price, then that's the way to go.

 

[LTB45]

Take it from someone that reloads THOUSANDS of shells a year.

Buy MEC!!!!!!
DO NOT BUY A SINGLE STAGE PRESS!
Unless you are only making 100 shells a month. If you are making more than that get a Progressive machine.
I have 4 MEC's on my bench.
.410, 20ga are both 650's as is a 12ga I picked up for next to nothing, the only reason I have it.
Single stages are fine for light reloading. I use mine for my skeet shells.
My 12ga Trap shells are made on my Grabber progressive machine. I reload for myself and my wife. We are both competitive Trap shooters (although you cannot tell by this seasons scores...lol )
I am now looking into automating my Grabber.

Trust me I would not steer you wrong. Find a used progressive machine, you will thank me later, if your reloading is as anywhere near my numbers.

 

[nitesite]

Take it from someone that reloads THOUSANDS of shells a year.

Buy MEC!!!!!!
DO NOT BUY A SINGLE STAGE PRESS!
Unless you are only making 100 shells a month. If you are making more than that get a Progressive machine.
I have 4 MEC's on my bench.
.410, 20ga are both 650's as is a 12ga I picked up for next to nothing, the only reason I have it.
Single stages are fine for light reloading. I use mine for my skeet shells.
My 12ga Trap shells are made on my Grabber progressive machine. I reload for myself and my wife. We are both competitive Trap shooters (although you cannot tell by this seasons scores...lol )
I am now looking into automating my Grabber.

Trust me I would not steer you wrong. Find a used progressive machine, you will thank me later, if your reloading is as anywhere near my numbers.

^THIS He know of what he speaks.

Unless your trap gun has a very tight chamber, the 650 is really nice. I have one. And a 600-jr and a Sizemaster. The 650 does not re-size the base like some MEC loaders but it's a great press.

 

[LTB45]

^THIS He know of what he speaks.

Unless your trap gun has a very tight chamber, the 650 is really nice. I have one. And a 600-jr and a Sizemaster. The 650 does not re-size the base like some MEC loaders but it's a great press.

Single stage presses use a sized ring that the hull is squeezed into while depriming. That is not the best way but it works.
The progressive machines use a resizing collar that the hull falls into while depriming. Once in there the collar is crushed down around the hulls base. Gets you a much better resized hull.

 

[nitesite]

My experience has been that pump and semi-auto shotguns have generous chambers so re-sizing the shell base is not a critical factor. My ammo made on my 650 has never had chambering issues.

 

[MikeD]

What LTB said!!

I loaded 300 rounds a week on a Lee Load All for many years. It was all I could afford at the time. If I was still shooting clays as frequently I would buy a MEC in a heartbeat.

I only used the resizing ring on range hulls or if I was reloading for a different gun. My 870, what I was shooting at the time, never had a problem with hulls that were not resized as long as they were previously fired from it.

 

[CaddmannQ]

Unless you cannot afford something better, I too would avoid the Lee, just because I think the quality is going to hell. The first one I purchased had burrs, the handle wasn't bent square and the links were slightly different. The second one I bought had all that plus it was also missing a screw, and the front plate had been attached in such a sloppy manner that the slide was balky and also leaked powder.

I own two (12 & 16ga) and they're only suitable for the casual shooter who is also willing to fiddle around with their plastic nonsense.

I reinforced both of mine and adjusted them and got them to work quite well. I've loaded over 300 shells on each one and so far they fire fine.

But if I was going through hundreds of shells a week, I would definitely want a faster and more high-quality press.

 

[Stanislao]

My experience has been that pump and semi-auto shotguns have generous chambers so re-sizing the shell base is not a critical factor. My ammo made on my 650 has never had chambering issues.

^THIS He know of what he speaks.
Unless your trap gun has a very tight chamber, the 650 is really nice.

Well... there is this weird ring of erosion in the chamber, well behind the throat. Gun doesn't like Fiocchi ammo, either clear or (in fact particularly) their orange hulls.

 

[CaddmannQ]

As I recall from my measurements The rim thickness is different on the Fiocchi.

I made a long post here somewhere about that problem where foreign ammo is called the same gauge but the dimensions are slightly different.

Also I've had a few Fiocchis with poorly seated primers, which didn't fire till the second strike.

Anyhow after the first firing and then resizing and reloading they, always shot OK for me.

By the way, I know Fiocchi's are being made here in America now, but I believe they're being made on metric tooling.

 

[nitesite]

Well... there is this weird ring of erosion in the chamber, well behind the throat. Gun doesn't like Fiocchi ammo, either clear or (in fact particularly) their orange hulls.

I am curious about Fiocchi shotgun propellant causing chamber erosion. Especially when it is short of the throat. Where the plastic hull contact the chamber.

 

[Stanislao]

Chamber erosion was present when I purchased the shotgun, can't blame that on Fiocchi. For all I know the previous owner was shooting nails and other stupid shit through the gun.

Fiocchi shells tend to be difficult to extract from my 500. A box of orange hulls in particular gave me twenty-four "brace against the hip and pull hard" extractions, and exactly one "that actually worked!" extraction. Clear hulls have been markedly less difficult, but still troublesome.

Oddly enough the box of Remington Gun Club I bought gave occasional ejection difficulties. One got so hung up in the action that I was barely able to clear it an drop a new shell on the elevator in the time it took for the other four guys in the squad to fire.

 

[John A.]

That doesn't sound right to me Stan.

If you're having an extraction problem with 3 different shells, that points more toward a worn extractor and/or spring than it does the shells.

Just FWIW, Remington is my preferred reloading hull. Especially the smooth sided STS hull. I bought about 10 boxes of them when they were on clearance for $6.50 a box.

That gave me a bunch of "plinking" and friendly skeet, and light hunting shells, and a bunch to reload for the next several years.

I have reloaded some of the Rem shells 6 times already with no problems.

 

[John A.]

Oh, forgot to add, I reload with a lee. I have the 12, 20 and 16 gauge kits.

I am not a high volume loader. I load maybe a case of shells a year between them and it does good for what I use it for. Lately, more 20 ga. than anything because that's what my youngest son has been getting into.

But if I was loading more than a box or two of shells at any given time, I'd want the mec.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I bought two of the Lee presses because they were so inexpensive and I was a new reloader. For the money I spent I have reloaded a lot of shells with them in a short period of time.

But it does take more effort than a high-quality press should, and as I mentioned I think their quality is slipping.

As a manufacturing engineer at Vendo, I worked with lots of different metal working presses, from mini to mighty. We actually used something built in house that looks and works just like a Lee, as a press to assemble rows of push buttons.

Anyhow after I worked with mine a little bit and tuned them up and reinforced them, I think they work great for what I paid. But if I break one or wear one out, I'm not going to replace it with a Lee. I will definitely buy a Mec or similar.

My motivation in reloading shells was not just to save money (though I was getting a lot of free empty hulls out at the range) but I wanted to experiment with different loads for different guns & different purposes.

That doesn't sound right to me Stan.

If you're having an extraction problem with 3 different shells, that points more toward a worn extractor and/or spring than it does the shells . . .

I agree with this and I would start looking at the extractor marks on the shells which did cycle correctly.

Are the marks light, uniform and regular? . . . or are they heavy, jagged or irregular? Are there burrs on the brass and aluminum?

One guy at the range had a gun that was just chewing into those aluminum shells, leaving big old burrs. The shells were not suitable for reloading unless you were desperate.

His extractor was bent.

 

[Stanislao]

All the troublesome shells have been tossed, I've little desire to buy more Fiocchi. Are you sure the extractors are the issue? They certainly seem to grab the rim nicely, it feels like the case is getting stuck. Once the bolt moves the shell comes with it.

 

[John A.]

It could be the extractors/springs.

It could be a heavily fouled or rusty chamber, or otherwise "sticky" chamber.

It could be a bent part in the internals that are binding. Or even a bent action arm.

It could be a lot of things, but I am just going through the list of things it might be. But the extractor/springs seemed like the obvious first place to check.

 

[MrSluggo]

It'll be a bit before I can get into reloading shotgun shells, so I've been trying to get my learn on by reading and watching videos. It's NICE to be on here where you have folks that know their stuff with a lot of experience that are willing to share. Thanks !
I have a question that just popped in my head: while the Merc progressive does the standard 2 3/4" and 3", does it also do 3 1/2" shells or does that take a special adapter ?
And while I'm at it, there's been some discussion in other threads about the Aquila Minishells (1 3/4"). Are quality reloaders capable of loading these smaller shells ?
There would be other issues such as sourcing hulls (or cutting down standard hulls ?), etc that could put this into the "Yes, it's possible, but it's a major pain in the rear and not worth it" category.

I hope I'm not derailing this thread but I haven't met my "Dumb Question" quota yet for this month, so .....

 

[John A.]

I'm not certain what wads the mini-shells are using.

Or, if they're using anything more than a felt wad with no shotcup to hold the payload in an attempt to make it as short as possible.

Best way I could answer that is if I saw what the inside of a factory mini-shell was made of.

Also, they've been known not to work in all semi auto and pump guns.

Work fine in single shots and double barrels, but obviously, you don't have to deal with anything there other than dropping them down into the barrel by hand and closing the action.

 

[MrSluggo]

Thanks ! I'll be getting a couple of boxes of MiniShell 7/8 ounce slugs in from Midway (probably Tuesday) and I'll cut one open and take some pics and
post them up.
It'll be interesting to see how Aquila fits everything into these shorties and still manage to get a bit of a punch.
I think you might be on to something with the felt wad. They might use a felt wad with "rubber" wipers on the end (kind of like a Brenneke Classic Magnum).
..... hurry up, Midway, I'm waiting !!!