For the armchair quarterbacks among us

[oli700]

Think your a gun fighter ?

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/01/13/gun-owners-participate-in-simulation-of-paris-massacre/


Robert Farago

How should the Hebdo folk have been equipped to handle the attack? The thought experiment I have in mind:

- There’s no police presence.

– There are 17 people in the offices. One room to the right as you come in. One to the left. A long, narrow corridor leading to a conference room. Five people in the outer offices. Twelve in the conference room.

– A minimum of two people are armed; a maximum of four people are armed.

– No NFA items allowed.

– No easy escape route.

– The terrorists are there to kill; they are NOT going to retreat or surrender. It’s a fight to the death.

What’s the plan?
[quote/]

 

[LAZY EYED SNIPER]

Well $#!+

...maybe I can work that in next time I go back home to visit family...

 

[oli700]

Sounds like some gun enthusiasts got their eyes opened up.....

I think everyone should take a turn in all the roles terrorist included.

 

[MikeT]

I challenge all that have CHL's or are allowed to carry and do, to get involved in some form of competitive shooting. Nothing will duplicate the stress of combat...except combat. However, when competing against the clock or against another shooter (Paintball, airsoft included), you will find what works and what does not work very quickly. For those that carry concealed, take the time to shoot against a timer drawing your concealed (At first) unloaded, but cocked weapon. You will, again, find you may need to change your carry position or clothing. Practice with shoot and no-shoot targets. Train, train, train, and train some more.

 

[MikeD]

Interesting. I'll admit it I 'm not sure how I would play it, I'm not John McClane. In this type of situation you are already behind the curve and in serious trouble, esp when the attackers are likely better armed and possibly better armored and have the element of surprise.

Honestly I think most if not all of us would be FUBAR in a real situation like this, but there is always a chance, which increases a bit if I am armed as well.

If I'm going to die anyway, I'd rather it be with an empty gun i my hand. There is always that one chance, that's why people play the lottery.

 

[oli700]

In this type of situation you are already behind the curve and in serious trouble, esp when the attackers are likely better armed and possibly better armored and have the element of surprise.

Wise ,while competition will serve a person well, next to worthless in this situation. Competition and games can set you up pretty good for a gun fight .......not so much for getting ambushed .

There were several gun people in that test, they all died . The only survivor was a person that ran .

If the group was expecting company than the outcome would be much better, they all knew what was comming but we're made to play like they were being ambushed.

My point, don't be surprised people are dead, be surprised you alive......and always expect company

Alway always run and seek the nearest cover if you plan to fight back, alway run and run fast and far when planning to retreat like the lone survivor in this sim.....nothing wrong with living if you can save your skin do so, if you can save others skin do so. It's up to you to assess the situation and weight the risk vs. gain in any.
Sometimes it's wise to run , I would bet the bank in the situation put up by TTAG, the Noveske shooting team would die everytime

 

[carbinemike]

I'll be the first to say I don't consider myself a gun fighter. I think MikeD and Oli have good points in the last two posts. The distancing of oneself from the threat is the advice Nitesite posted when discussing the use of 00 buck versus slugs.

This thread reminded me of a friend from high school that joined the Army after graduating. He planned to stay in but left after his enlistment was over. He was in an artillery crew and said he died in every single simulated war game they did.

Along the same lines of the simulated Paris attack, this video is of a guy that has led protest marches against the police and a reporter that went through training scenarios from police training. Just like Oli's link, they both learn a lot.

 

[oli700]

bet a lot of people didn't know they were a gunfighter till the got into gun fight .....I prefer that approach rather than thinking I am one and finding out I am not after I get into a gun fight. lucky if you get away from a massacre because I think many great warriors have been killed in their sleep

 

[John A.]

I'll be the first to say that a handgun has always been my weakest aspect of shooting.

I can shoot one fairly well, but not great by any standard.

It's something that I have worked on over the years, which is why I can shoot one fairly well now, but not great. And that is even taking into consideration that I have had some professional training.

I agree that if you're ambushed by people (especially plural), your odds of surviving are going to be lower than the presidents' approval ratings.

 

[Paul C]

As a civilian, what we do not hear about or see in these videos can quickly get you dead. "Remember, you are on the defensive" so: 1) Watch the bad guy's hands, the HANDS, those deadly HANDS is a must; 2) "ALWAYS use your Cover and Concealment", there may be more than one BG; 3) Maintain situational awareness instead of focusing (tunnel vision) on the BG; 4) Be aware that when the Police show up "Display No Weapons"; 4) Keep your spouse on the phone (leaving the line open) with the 911 operator.
Personally, when the Police arrive I recommend immediately back tracking to your family's secure room. I have found that showing the responding officer my empty hands will quickly defuse a situation. Finally, here is the hardest part when your adrenalin's up, always comply with the officer's instructions IMMEDIATELY. Train like you will fight, so when the SHTF your responses will be instinctual, instead of depending on chance.

 

[LlunaticFringeInc]

Competitive shooting sports will certainly help to learn yourself to be cool under stress and handle business. That will for sure put you a step above Joe Average out there. But I am here to tell you that if you don't run simulations such as the one the OP posted using simunitions your likely to be at a serious disadvantage if you do find your self in a shoot out. Its a way different situation than shooting at some paper targets on a range even when you do combat type drills. So much so I would even suggest using paint guns if you have to, to run CQB drills.

As a Weapons Tech running an armory and often being a detatchment to support SEAL's, guess who got to often times play the role of the Bad Guy while they ran drills at the CQB house? The first few times I got "picked" for this...I got ate the hell up in a matter of seconds each run and bruises on top of bruises and had so many welts I looked like I had a BEAT DOWN! Instead of whining and complaining about being the bad guy, I watched the video tapes afterwards and took notes when they critiqued the drill. I got to hear what I did wrong that got me killed or taken out of the fight and what they did right or wrong. Man did I learn a lot and afterwards I got to be a pretty good challenge for them. Yeah I still got killed everytime but I usually made them have to put some effort into it and work for it. More importantly....what I learned there made the difference in me being able to return home from 3 tours in Iraq/Afghanistan, that I am sure of!!!

Most definitely get into some sort of shooting sport. Definitely run some combat type drills on the range when you can. Don't just run them against a stop watch. Sprint about 100 yards and then do some timed fire form multiple positions and at multiple targets. Then get your hands on simunitions if you can afford them, paint guns if you cant, and then start shooting back at "targets" that can shoot right back at you and move around on you and include scenarios where you have to reload in the middle of the heat of the shoot out drill. It will show you a lot about whats gonna work and what aint gonna work out so well. Most like I did will fail miserably the first few times. Video tape it if you can and then review it frame by frame...the film doesn't lie!