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having 14'' barrel illegal if not on gun?

Discussion in 'Mossberg 500 Pump Action' started by kurtis, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. kurtis

    kurtis .410

    Messages:
    93
    So I ordered the 14'' 590 conversion kit but won't be able to do the tax stamp until later in life. Is it legal to keep the parts around the house as long as there not on the shotgun correct?
  2. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,039
    It depends on who you ask.

    There is a legal precedent of "intent" though. Just like how drilling an extra hole in a receiver makes it a machinegun, even without FA parts. :confused:
  3. Tuflehundon

    Tuflehundon .270 WIN

    Messages:
    260
    Short answer, no. Just like having a short barreled upper for an AR without having an AR pistol. Your intent is to make a short barrel weapon. Intent is what matters.
  4. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    6,913
    It seems to me his intent was to wait until it was legal for him to construct that weapon and then build it.

    Possession may be 'legal' intent but it doesn't necessarily mean present intent.

    People store things and save things up for all kinds of reasons.

    ^ not a lawyer^
  5. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,039
  6. stigmata

    stigmata 20g

    Messages:
    972
    This is a bit too open to interpret. It is on who you ask and their interpretation of the law. I have a 7 in barrel, which I stored for about a year, for a pistol build. But that same 7 inch barrel would be illegal without a stamp if it were for a rifle but it's not and intended for a pistol.
    It's just like owning house hold cleaning chemicals when mixed together may combust. Does that give you guilty intent to make an explosive device. IMO no but I'm not part of a "reasonable jury" to decide.
    I would just store it like you would anything else until ur ready to go and have what u need to legally own it. Just my opinion.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  7. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    6,913
    I don't know .... @John A. I read the posts about constructive possession & once again the law is an ass in some circumstances and a hero and others. To read these things is always like watching a Three Stooges movie as you see the govt trip over itself.

    I look at it like this: I have had lots of background checks, at my expense.

    The government should now allow me to buy pretty much whatever the heck I want, as long as I can secure it. We're not talking about destructive devices like grenades.

    But silencers or barrels for ordinary guns? I am John Q ordinary taxpayer guys. I work in an office and drive a Toyota. I shoot targets for fun. The govt has clearly wasted a lot of time and money worrying about guys like me, because while they haven't spent much per capita, they spent a fortune collectively, on us all.
  8. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,039
    I am not advocating or saying that I like or agree with it, but the truth of the matter is, some people have been prosecuted for constructive intent regardless of how we feel about it.

    example:
    https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2009/08/florida-man-arrested-for-const.html

    https://blog.princelaw.com/2009/09/01/florida-man-arrested-for-constructive-possession-of-an-sbr/

    Personally, I think if you can store the barrel off-site, say like a friend or family member who does not have the receiver it would fit in, or a safe deposit box or whatever, there could be no issues with being readily accessible.
    CaddmannQ likes this.
  9. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

    Messages:
    1,703
    kurtis,
    I had a friend back in the '90s that asked me a similar question. So I researched and asked for professional advice to pass along. In my mind the best way for him to go was to ask the controlling authority pertinent to his position. I thought that he should write BATF and get a written decision on how to legally keep off their bad side.

    But before I passed this suggestion to him I went to one of my trusted advisers who is a LEO and arms dealer and mfgr and ran it by him. NO WAY he says. He deals often w/ ATF. He advised that nobody EVER contact them because it can tattoo a target on your back. Unless you have some really good legal backup, don't do that.

    The vague nature of this post is intentional. The main point is... be damn careful.



    Here is the basic

    ATF EQUATION

    [​IMG] upload_2016-12-12_19-20-54.png upload_2016-12-12_19-19-58.png

    Translated from ATF into English:
    We think that washer is a baffle. We think you need to be in jail for 20 years.

    -- I am not a lawyer. Before taking my advice consult someone who has knowledge and experience in the appropriate field. Failure to do so may result in expensive fines or uncomfortable incarceration.
    CaddmannQ likes this.
  10. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    6,913
    In the new land of confiscation without due process, I think flying under the radar is wise.

    Also the ATF can tell you anything they want and they're not responsible if it's right or wrong & you can still go to jail.

    Just because they can't tell you what the law is exactly doesn't mean you can't be prosecuted under it.
  11. kurtis

    kurtis .410

    Messages:
    93
    thanks guys I've decided to build them as non nfa PGO firearms. I purchased to PGO 500s today and on the 4473 the firearms were purchased as ''other" so i would be in the clear unless other laws are passed in the future. A few years ago I wouldn't build one of these since its such a grey area, but there a multiple companies now selling firearms built in this configuration to the public and giant youtube channels are showing them all over damn youtube and those are viewed by millions of people.
    Granted I will still keep a copy of the 4473 and ATF letters on my person if I want to take it to the range in the odd chance id run into law enforcement. But seeing this firearm sold by multiple companies puts me more at ease. Im sure if these companies didn't have their ducks in a row they would be selling these to the public so openly.

    just for reference:
    http://www.asylumweaponryllc.com/take-action/
    https://www.802traders.com/product-p/802shorty1.htm
    https://www.gunsamerica.com/9504674...berg-500-Cruiser-Pump-Action-12-Gauge-5-1.htm

    on another note I have two 500s with 20inch front ends with heat shields in a mate finish that I might be selling off what would be a decent price to sell these at?
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  12. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    6,913
    Good luck and hang on tight!

    I have one with the "legal" barrel, and it's a handful. Definitely needs a forearm strap.

    500.LIT.jpg
  13. kurtis

    kurtis .410

    Messages:
    93
    shot a tube full of 00 buck with a pistol grip like that and it was eye opening! I have also shot a birds head grip and it was a huge improvement and a whole lot easier on the body.
  14. Damitux

    Damitux Copper BB

    Messages:
    4
  15. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,039
    Yeah, that's been discussed before and I like how they look, except for the bird head grip. I'm not really fond of it much, but I like the weapon itself.

    It'll be fine as long as no one puts a stock or front grip on it.
  16. Allan DeGroot

    Allan DeGroot Copper BB

    Messages:
    9
    Simply having a Barrel shorter than the legal 18" minumum and the shotgun it fits is something an ATF agent will call "Constructive Possession"

    Unless you really want to visit scenic Ft. Leavenworth.... for an extended stay (like ten years)
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 6:26 PM
  17. sixbennetts

    sixbennetts .270 WIN

    Messages:
    131
    Buy a Shockwave. Then your barrel magically becomes a spare. Keep it for later when you get your stamp, then sell the Shockwave.

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