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if you could only get one

Discussion in 'Long Guns' started by John A., Mar 27, 2014.

  1. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    No, not your typical, end of the world "which gun" thread.

    With as much talk lately coming from the left with possible (likely) new import restrictions coming, if you could only get one, which would it be and why?

    I have a sort of bucket list of about 5 guns that I like. Some old school, some new, some have obvious drawbacks.

    I am going to put these in order of where I stand and why

    CARBINE

    Beretta Storm Carbine
    Pro:
    uses same mags and ammo as I already have, albeit somewhat limited capacity as to what I'm used to
    never a problem with their other products and I rank them pretty high
    price ranges from $650-$800 new

    Vector full size uzi
    pro:
    5 year warranty
    reliable classic design
    magazine and accessories available at this time
    uses bullets that I already have
    cons:
    costs $100-$200 more than the beretta storm, which is lighter and has more modern features
    not exactly the same FCG/bolt as the Pre86 originals either

    taurus carbine
    what can I say? I kinda like the look of it, but the magazine issue, and the fact that they have already discontinued the 45 variant, and it's a fairly new (unproven) design, I just think there are better alternatives at this time.

    HK usc45
    I don't currently own a 45 carbine, but if I did, I would lean toward a 28Aa Thompson. Yeah, I just roll that way. And although I own an HK, they are not one of my Fav manufacturers by a long shot.

    RIFLES

    PTR91
    I have always liked them and are probably my first choice for rifle calibers. They're reliable, mags are generally inexpensive, they're robust, the (308) caliber is capable. They're also about $500 less expensive than my next choice.

    Con:
    I would have to start stocking a new caliber, though I do like the caliber.
    I am not the biggest fan of HK designs, and replacement parts can get expensive and hard to find.

    Iwi Tavor
    I am intrigued by the bull pup design, but realistically, I already own several 5.56 weapons that perform well and I just don't see it there (for me). I would really like to wring one out, but for the cost of 3 decent quality home build AR's...

    con: no replacement parts, so if import stopped today, with so few in, would either command a premium or be past over entirely because of no way to maintain them.

    I suppose that I'm torn between the Beretta Storm and the PTR91 and am leaning toward the latter.

    Any other good import designs I'm overlooking?
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  2. GunnyGene

    GunnyGene Racist old man BANNED

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  3. LAZY EYED SNIPER

    LAZY EYED SNIPER Overwatch Staff Member Global Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    John, aren't the Storm carbines made here in the U.S.?

    Seems that the PTR91 would be the way to go since it's on the table for a possible import ban. You should still be able to pick up the Beretta later on down the road. Have you fondled a Tavor yet? It's heavier than it looks. The Israelis build exceptional weapons and while the Tavor are great shooters, for a 5.56 bullpup I prefer the ergos of the Steyr AUG/A3. Just feels better shouldered to me...
  4. LAZY EYED SNIPER

    LAZY EYED SNIPER Overwatch Staff Member Global Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    Oh, and I one of my co-workers has been trying to sell me his PTR-91 Paratrooper for a couple months. Not sure what he wants for it 'cause I never got that far, but I can ask or put you in contact if you're interested...
  5. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    15,803
    les, I was under the impression the storm carbines were made offshore, but I can't find anything definitive either way.

    As for the ptr, I have always been somewhat partial to them, though I'm more partial to th FN FAL, which I'd like to own even more.



  6. LAZY EYED SNIPER

    LAZY EYED SNIPER Overwatch Staff Member Global Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    You know I'm a sucker for FN rifles!

    I checked with the folks over on the Beretta forum and you're right about the Cx4 carbines, they are all still made in Italy. I thought for sure they'd have begun production here this far in but they've not been entered into US military trials, so there's no reason for US production at this point. I've shouldered them a few times in stores, but never fired one. I'll bet it's a fun shooter...
  7. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    What is the magazine issue? Is it that they didn't use a common mag? I have tried to find out what mags it uses but didn't get an answer. I was wondering why they didn't use Glock mags which are common and I hear work well.
  8. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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  9. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    That's what I figured. I hate proprietary mags when common mags are available in the industry.
  10. GEARCHECKER

    GEARCHECKER .410

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    65
    Only one? That's easy. The Browning M1918-A1 BAR. Not the modern semi version. The real deal. 30-06 fully automatic rifle.

    [​IMG]
  11. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    The BAR was certainly a beast. Barking fire 4 feet from the muzzle.

    Unfortunately, they are way out of my price range.

    I have however picked up a FAL (that I love) and built a bullpup in 7.62x39, so I am still working on my bucket list.
  12. oli700

    oli700 12g Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    imports hmmmm. I have to go Steyr AUG for modernish choice
    All the rest of my favorite foreign firearms are older and Eastern European, Sturmgewehr 44, VZ58, 98k Mauser.
    I honestly don't think anyone makes a better rifle than the US in any era so I wouldn't care if imports stopped, other than the freedom of choice part, that part sucks even if I don't want one.
    I think some forien handguns give ours a run though
  13. GunnyGene

    GunnyGene Racist old man BANNED

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    Beauty! That sure brings back some memories from 1963! :D
  14. NCMAV88

    NCMAV88 .270 WIN

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    A friend of mine owns a FAL and I love when he breaks it out! That thing is a beast and it would probably be my choice for the original question here!
    John A. likes this.
  15. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    I love my FAL.


    [​IMG]
    NCMAV88 likes this.
  16. oli700

    oli700 12g Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    I really like the finished product, nicest one I have seen. Does it do .308 or do you want to stick with NATO in that rifle ?
  17. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    I have heard some say that you can and some say that you can't, and there have been so many conflicting statements online that it made my head spin, so I bought a set of 308 headspace gauges and checked the bolt/barrel fit for myself just to make sure and did the same again after replacing the bolt carrier to one with the sand cuts in it.

    After speaking with a tech at Foster to see what I needed, I learned that there are many different gauges for the 308 and 7.62x51 and that while they may have different names for them, they overlap each other in size in most cases. Case in point, the 7.62x51 MAX gauge and the 308 FIELD gauge are the same length despite having different product numbers.

    So, upon determining that I wanted to try to shoot either/or 308/7.62x51 (like I do in my AR's ~5.56 and 223), I bought a 308 go, no go and field gauge, which again remember that the 308 field and 7.62x51 max gauges are the same regardless.

    What I found in that specific gun is while the chamber was loose enough to let the no go gauge close (barely), I wouldn't have been able to close the field gauge if I turned the gun around and jumped up and down on the bolt LOL.

    So this means that while the chamber was a little loose in terms of a 308 precision bolt gun (and probably new barrel-which this is not- and ideal and perfect chamber or perhaps intentionally a little loose to help facilitate loading in less than ideal conditions), the chamber was not excessively deep enough that I feel would cause an unsupported case/head separation.

    Long story short, I have fired both wolf steel case 308 and lake city 7.62x51 through the gun and I have seen no pressure signs on any of the ejected cases. No bulging of the cases, no fouling around or flattened primers, etc. so I think I'm OK with either/or.
  18. oli700

    oli700 12g Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    cool, not only is 308 a different head spacing its loaded to a higher pressure than NATO. Looked into it pretty heavy when doing the AR10 for a friend......went with a 308 Mega barrel......SJC Titan brake , you can dump 20 rounds and it just sits there. Just a little more jump than a 556
  19. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    With the Fal and its' adjustable gas settings, it's surprisingly tame in the recoil department too.

    If you'd like, I could send you the set of gauges if you're curious where in the chamber spectrum the mega barrel is. From what I can tell, the looser it is, the less reloads you'll get from the brass due to stretching.

    And you are correct about 308 pressures being a little higher than nato. It's not much, but is more. But I have also heard that one measures in cup and the other in psi, but I don't really know.

    Saami says max is: 308 is ~62,000 and the x51 is 60,191.

    The outside dimensions of the cartridges are identical; the internal dimensions are almost the same but 7.62x51 brass is thicker and stronger.

    The go/no-go chamber dimension tolerance specs are looser in 7.62mm chambers because of that. So a very loose 7.62mm chamber may be "safe" to fire 7.62 cartridges, but not thinner-walled .308.

    Also, burn rates and bullet weights will also cause pressure changes, and why most people shooting rifles with x51 military chambers stick with 150gr (or less) pills to keep the pressures down.
  20. yz9890

    yz9890 .270 WIN

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    202
    If I could only have one, I'd have more than one.

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