Is there a significant difference in shotgun primers

[John A.]

I have a couple different brands of shotgun primers.

I've mainly been using the Winchesters because that's what most of the load data books that I have call for.

But I'm wondering if the Federal primers would cause either high or low pressure issues or could be substituted instead of the winchesters.

I typically stick with the lowest powder charge load data and don't usually pack it with powder if I can avoid it for multiple reasons anyway, but figured that I would ask.

More specifically, if anyone knows if/which primers may be a little hotter than another if all else is equal.

Here are essentially 2 different loads, with the only difference being the primer, and obviously the powder charge.




Obviously I'm not going to be using the Figure 8's in these loads and am just trying to determine which primer would be best to use in tweaking my low recoil buckshot recipe and am just using this to get an idea of comparing two loads that are essentially the same except the primer and slightly different powder charge to achieve the same velocity.

I'm thinking the Federals may be a little hotter, or may do a little better job at lighting off the powder with a slightly less charge since I had to reduce my charge by a half a grain over what the load data called for because I couldn't get a good crimp and they were trying to open up on me after they sat there for a few hours.

The wad and load performed great with the load data that I used which called for 16 gr of powder, just I needed to make enough room for a better crimp so I dropped the charge to 15.5 and am going to use the Federal primer this time and see how it does.

 

[nitesite]

Hi John.

So the hulls and wads and everything are alike, which is what I read in your question. Winchester standard primers are typically hotter than other brands of standard primers.

It seems strange that using more powder but a different primer makes for less pressure by 1000-PSI.

A call to Hodgdon might be in order.

 

[John A.]

Yeah, I'm really trying to tweak my load a little.

My best patterns for the 870 came from the 12S3 Federal wad, but the only recipe that I have for it, fills up the capacity a little too much. I can crimp the top, but they start to open up after an hour or so.

So, I reduced the powder charge by a half a grain, which in the scheme of things will reduce velocity, but not by a whole lot. Plus, the charge was supposed to be for 1-1/8 oz shot, and I was loading to 1 ounce because that's all that I could get to fit in the hull properly, which makes the 16.0 gr charge probably a little warm for the 1 oz load anyway if looking at the entire picture.

The recipe would've probably been fine for birdshot, but I was loading 00 buckshot in the wads, so they were probably taking up more room in the wad than birdshot would simply because they're not as dense and having to stack the pellets rather than just dumping them in the shot cup.

I shot two or three of the shells last night and they seem to be doing really well despite the slightly reduced powder charge, and the crimps are staying closed correctly.

I also noticed that the pattern seems to be about the same, but a little higher than they were previously.

But since I'm shooting these offhand while standing, it could've just been be moving around some too. I loaded up about a dozen of them today to shoot some more through the gun.

They're really mild recoiling, but shoot pretty good and where I'm aiming, so I think I'm going to keep this recipe.

Remington Hull
15.5 gr Clays powder
Fed 209 primer
Federal 12S3 wad
8 pellets stacked 00 Buck = 1 ounce payload

Does anyone have any recipes that doesn't use a shot cup wad?

I shouldn't have a problem loading with a felt or cork wad under 9 pellets.

I may even try to use the 12S3 wads with the petals cut off so I can try to fit 3 pellets in the hull per layer, rather than the 2 pellets per layer (4 layers) that fit in the factory wad because they take up some of the interior space of the hull. I can always use an overshot card if I need to.

edit to add photo of the 20 yard pattern with the Fed wad and primer.

 

[John A.]

I cut the petals off of the Federal shot cup, and in fact was able to stack 3 rows of 3 pellets per layer, making a total of NINE 00 buckshot per hull. This makes the shot be about 1-1/8 oz (or ever so slightly less) so I'm not overloading with weight/mass. I was actually running these with less weight than the recipe called for before. Which should've lowered the psi and increased the velocity a little bit. But now, I will slightly increase the pressure while lowering the velocity (that whole pesky equal and opposite reaction physics law).

This time I used a clear overshot card between the pellets and the crimp, but next time I probably won't. I just wanted a solid surface for the crimp to sit against, but I don't think it'll be necessary next time.

This recipe still has the 15.5 gr of clays, but with the federal primer being the only difference than before.

Other than cutting off the petals of the shot cup and stacking the layers 3 wide instead of 2 wide with the post above.

 

[John A.]

@nitesite I did get a reply from hogdon about the pressure disrepency.

Here is what it said:

We have seen the change of components make some combinations higher pressures than others.

Here is what I can tell you from what we have seen from hottest to mild

Fed 209A
CCI 209M
Winchester
Fiocchi
Cheddite
CCI 209
Remington

 

[nitesite]

Thanks for posting that John.. Very interesting and something I definitely did not know.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I haven't shot my own loads enough to notice that the primers are any different, but I have loaded shotshells with Federal, Winchester and Remington primers. These primers are all slightly different in diameter and I've been choosing the primer by which one fits the best in the shell I am reloading.