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Mossberg SA-20 Bantam 20ga - 24" Barrel - Suggestions?

Discussion in 'Mossberg SA-20' started by Javell, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    Read all the threads. Bought it anyway. I understand the shell requirements and break in period.

    Utilization: Home defense by a lady, 5'2", 115lbs

    Mossberg SA-20 Bantam 20ga LOP - Short Youth Stock - Out of the box LOP is 12 5/8 inches.

    Vent Rib width is: .275" or 7.00mm using digital calipers at bead. Tapered Rib is wider at receiver .281" - 7.14mm.

    Weight unloaded (actual on postal scale): 6 lbs 0.6 oz

    5 unlabeled choke tubes (notches only) with choke case. No choke wrench. Full, Improved Modified, Modified, Improved Cylinder, & Skeet.

    Questions:

    1. With the gas system, can the stock be trimmed? I'd like to take it down to 12" and replace the pad with a decelerator pad for small frame family members.

    2. Out of the box new, trigger pull is 6lbs 6oz to 6lbs 8oz (Lyman digital). I didn't see anybody discuss trigger work or springs replacement? I'd like to be at 4.0-4.5 lbs. trigger pull.

    3. SA-20 Choke Tubes. Cross references says Benelli/Beretta 20 Gauge. Can anybody confirm this?

    3. I'd like to add a rail & optic, but will start with a magnetic fiber optic front sight over the bead. Suggestions?

    Any suggestions?
  2. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    I'm going to try this magnetic sight.

    HIVIZ Sight Systems Magnetic combo sight from .218" to .328"
    model TO 300
  3. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    11,383
    No break in period needed, just clean it and shoot.

    Assuming it is like my 930 you cannot remove too much from the stock, there is a tube and a spring that extends the length.

    A gunsmith can usually make a trigger a little lighter, on a shotgun, unless specifically used for deer hunting with slugs or turkey hunting I would just leave it as is. It will smooth out a bit over time. In a HD situation 7lbs is not that much when Adrenalin is pumping.

    Congrats on the SA20 and welcome to the forums!!
  4. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    1,515
    Search "bobster" and "SA-20" here and you should find numerous posts and replies by me regarding the SA-20. And PLENTY of pics. I have a Turkey Thug which came with a dished scope mount that allows viewing of the "glowst ring" sights when scope is not installed. I don't know if the sights or scope mount are available separately.

    The SA-20 does NOT have a buffer spring in the stock like the 930. So go ahead and chop away! :) You will need a long extension with socket on it (I think--not sure of the size) to get at the metric? bolt that holds the stock to the receiver. This is after removing the butt pad.

    Yes, standard Benelli/Beretta choke tubes, but not the "Crio" style.

    The trigger should "loosen" up as it gets broken in. If you are daring, you could disassemble the trigger assembly and polish moving parts/deburr edges but NOT THE SEAR ledge or anything that could make the trigger unsafe! I don't know of a video or anything that would detail this for you so you are on your own. You could start by making sure any manufacturing grit is flushed out and then lube the trigger with a good gun oil and/or grease. Disassembly of a shotgun trigger is complicated and not recommended, especially for a HD gun.

    Welcome aboard, Javell! :)
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  5. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    11,383
    Interesting, thanks for that info.
  6. Javell

    Javell .22LR

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    14
    Thank you for the suggestions and advice. I disassembled and reassembled the gun 3 times tonight. The Mossberg SA-20 shotgun is an easy gun to learn disassembly/reassembly. I'm planning to test drive it before I make any mods. I'm aware it can be shell finicky. I've got some 2 3/4 and 3" shells with 7/8 and 1oz loads.......bird, buck & slugs. I only took 13 slugs to zero the Leupold scope on my Remington 11-87 so I think I can handle this.

    Some discoveries.....repeated information from previous posters and some discovered on the web today.

    1. Mossberg SA-20 Clones. The Mossberg SA-20 20 gauge shotgun is manufactured by Armsan in Turkey. They also make guns sold under the TriStar, Weatherby, and Pointer brands in the USA. There are mechanical and cosmetic differences among the shotguns, but the base design and functions are the same. I don't know which came first and which are the clones. The Mossberg SA-20 is in the same family as the:

    Weatherby SA-08: http://www.weatherby.com/media/weatherby/manuals/SA-08.pdf

    Armsan A620: http://armsan.com/en/products/

    TriStar Viper G2: http://www.tristararms.com/products/semi-automatic-shotguns/viper-g2-series/viper-g2-bronze/

    Pointer Deluxe SemiAuto: https://www.legacysports.com/wp-content/uploads/LSI_Catalog2018_2017-12-13a-lowres.pdf#page=29

    2. Mossberg SA-20 Parts. Web-based parts sources could only be found in the UK and Italy. The parts list available was limited. Armsan does not have a parts portal. I sent them a message. The UK sources cannot "export" the parts. So, it appears I'm back to calling Mossberg and/or Weatherby just to obtain a magazine cap with a sling swivel so I may properly mount a sling. I'll post my discoveries on the parts thread. The perceived lack of parts is starting to give me buyer's remorse, so I checked pricing on the Remington 11-87 youth 20ga that weighs 1lb more in the same configuration as the Mossberg SA-20. The Mossberg SA-20 mounts fast & comfortable, and feels much lighter than the 11-87 20ga youth.

    3. Cutting the Mossberg SA-20 Bantam Stock. There is not much room. There is sufficient room to cut another only 1/2 inch additional from the stock. The stock retaining bolt is 12/16" from the stock end and the stock pad has a 3/16" inset. I'm holding off until I see how it operates, but I'll probably trim it. This would reduce LOP down to ~12.25".
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
    Bobster likes this.
  7. Javell

    Javell .22LR

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    14
    Mossberg SA-20 Shotgun manuals. I'm unable to post the Mossberg manual due to file size restrictions, but the other brands and Armsan have better diagrams and photos in some cases. They all appear to be written by somebody who is ESL - English as a Second Language. YouTube videos were much more informative on assembly/disassembly.

    Mossberg Manual URL: http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/18478-SA-20-Auto-Owners-Manual_C.pdf

    Weatherby Manual URL: http://www.weatherby.com/media/weatherby/manuals/SA-08.pdf

    Armsan Manual URL: http://static.armsan.com/media/manuals/Armsan_Semiautomatic_Shotgun_Owners_Manual.pdf

    TriStar Viper G2 Manual URL: http://www.tristararms.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/tristar-semiauto-owners-manual.pdf

    Pointer Deluxe Semiautomatic Manual: https://www.legacysports.com/wp-content/uploads/Pointer_SemiAuto_Manual.pdf
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
    Bobster likes this.
  8. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    Mossberg SA-20 Shotgun Disassembly/Assembly videos. The following 2 videos were helpful. The first is silent, but has clear video. The 2nd has blurry video at times, but the oral instructions and comments make it the better video. I'm unsure, but it appears the piston sleeve setup in the Mossberg SA-20 is different than the setup in the Tristar Vipe G2. I do not have a Viper G2 to do the comparison first hand. This difference does not affect assemble/disassembly, but the O-ring does have to be checked in semi-auto shotguns.

    Video 1. Sökme ve Montaj İşlemleri Armsan A612 - Disassembly and Assembly of Armsan A612:


    Video 2.
    Tristar Viper G2 Shotgun Disassembly Field Strip Fieldstrip Takedown - Gunknowledge.com:


    Video3.
    Tristar Viper G2 Shotgun Reassembly Field Strip Fieldstrip Takedown - Gunknowledge.com:

    Lefty9 and Bobster like this.
  9. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    Mossberg SA-20 Shotgun Accessories. Just from the initial inspection, disassembly and re-assembly. I perceive I need a few things. I'm confused as to why there isn't an accessory list from Mossberg because accessories have much higher markup than guns. I recognize that arms manufacturers in Turkey don't make/market a lot of accessories, but as I cruise around the web and see the different branded models, there are a lot of options, both practical and aesthetic, being offered in the other brands.

    I like the gun so far. Please don't consider my observations as knocks on the shotgun. I would have bought the Mossberg SA-20 Tactical, but the Bantam youth stock is not an option on that model, cannot be purchased separately, and the how much the adult/full-size stock can be cut down is TBD.

    Needs:
    1. Updated front bead sight to something an old guy can see in low light....glow-in-the-dark orange? fiber optics sights?.....tritium option? .........5 minute lookup........2 mins on eBay.
    2. Magazine Cap sling swivel.............unobtanium from a US website.
    3. Choke tube wrench....cured on eBay in 2 minutes.

    Yes, I know I can drill the stock magazine cap and install a sling swivel, but there isn't much clearance. The magazine caps shown on other 20 ga Armsan models are larger and already have the sling swivel installed.

    I'll post as I figure this out and successfully install the accessories.

    Please advise if you know an on-line web parts source. Mossberg and S&W have sold me parts/accessories much cheaper over the phone than any website, but waiting in the Customer Service phone queue is just killing time and then ordering blind......last millennium stuff - flashback to the 1960's......catalogs, dial-up phones, waiting to be the next victim (customer).

    Attached Files:

    Bobster likes this.
  10. Javell

    Javell .22LR

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    14
    Bobster, Thank you for your posts and your time. I read every one before I made the purchase, but I couldn't see the photos until now (membership approval). It is unfortunate they discontinued those Turkey Thug models.
  11. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    Thanks MikeD. I looked at the trigger group. There's no room on that sear. I'll lightly polish, but there isn't much to adjust.

    My reasons for wanting adjustment to the 6lb 6oz trigger pull:

    1. English standard for a field gun is 4 lbs front trigger, 4.5 lbs rear trigger (if there is a 2nd trigger).
    2. Right now the trigger pull exceeds the shotgun weight.
    3. Yanking on a gun trigger has never improved hitting the target.
    4. The intended operator weighs half what I do, so if I'm annoyed she'll be even more annoyed.
    5. The older I get, the less I tolerate heavy triggers.
    6. The intended operator handed me back a 9mm pistol with a 8+ lb trigger pull last weekend and said "Dad, fix this one, please."
    7. Why do we train people to point a shotgun, reminding them it's not an area weapon, and then we give them a heavy trigger?
    8. My semiauto deer gun is at 3 lbs with replacement springs.....no issues.
  12. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    1,515
    Your welcome and thank YOU for posting the links and vids above. The SA-20 is not a hard gun to work on and is easy to shoot. I agree that it points easily and the sights the Thug has are easy to acquire. Mine hasn't really been picky about ammo and shoots 9 (8+1) as fast as you can pull the trigger. :)

    Speaking of triggers, you had me thinking about it so I went and checked and on the Thug it breaks at 7lbs. This is using a spring scale and this was an "average" of a half dozen pulls.

    I got a good deal on the Thug so not much buyer's remorse. I DO wish it had better OEM and aftermarket support. I had fancied a pistol grip stock and matching fore end but the factory stocks aren't bad. The extended mag tube works good but was not without installation issues.
  13. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    I'm planning to retest the aftermarket support. I'll post results. There are also local dealers (within ~35 miles) allegedly carrying the other brands. It can't hurt to ask:)
  14. Javell

    Javell .22LR

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    14
    Armsan Support Response. I asked about a parts source for the A620 model (Mossberg SA-20).

    Response was prompt today:

    Thank you for contacting Armsan,

    For A620 spare parts, you can contact the company Tristar Arms – Kansas City.

    Best Regards
  15. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    OK, I'm sold on the Mossberg SA-20! I ran the gun today for approximately 50 shells. There was not one failure.....no FTFs, no stovepipes, no cycle failures.

    It was smooth, sweet and low recoil with 3" shells. I had already removed the magazine plug. I still kept running out of shells and the bead sight kept me pounding a 50 yd target.

    Shells:
    Winchester 20ga Upland & Small Game 3" 1oz #5 (1220 fps)
    Remington High Velocity 20 ga Slugger 2.75" 1/2oz (1800 fps)
    Remington Buckshot #3, 20ga, 2.75"
    Winchester 20ga Upland & Small Game 2.75" 1oz #5 (1220 fps)
    Federal Field & Target, 2.75" 7/8oz 7.5 shot
    Federal Field & Target, 2.75" 7/8oz 8 shot

    There was recoil with the 3" shells, but using the 2.75" with 7/8oz there was no recoil. I'm aware that Mossberg's recommendation is 1oz and higher:)
  16. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    Magazine Tube Disassembly? Does anybody have instructions on disassembly of the magazine tube so I may clean it? It does not appear intuitive, but I could smell the powder & carbon in there when I took it out of the box and ran some snap caps through.

    TriStar Viper G2 T/W (Turkey/Waterfowl) Shotgun Review
    http://www.gunsumerreports.com/review_tristar_viper_g2_tw_p4.php
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  17. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    1,515
    I don't know if you saw this post of mine. I'm realizing the search function here is not that robust but I was able to scroll down in the "SA-20" sub-forum and find my old posting. This LINK will take you to it.

    And what the hell, a few pics of what I've talked about doesn't hurt, either... ;)

    Attached Files:

  18. Javell

    Javell .22LR

    Messages:
    14
    Bobster, Thank you! I'm not ready to add a magazine extension on.

    Did you mention "bayonet" in a previous post? Although a flashlight has more utility, a bayonet will dissuade folks from grabbing for your shotgun.

    Bayonet 870 Magnum Snip.JPG Bayonet 870 Magnum Snip2.JPG
  19. Lefty9

    Lefty9 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    234
    Oh man ! What a great post and long time coming ; this sub forum has been "dead" for a good long while.
    Love the video's....................Love my THUG !

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