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MVP Patrol 5.56 writeup..

Discussion in 'Mossberg MVP Bolt Action' started by stampeed valkyrie, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. stampeed valkyrie

    stampeed valkyrie .22LR

    Messages:
    16
    Thanks to the weather cooperating, and some free time today I was able to get back out with my 5.56 MVP Patrol rifle. For those that have been following me already know this rifle has been off to a rocky (at best) start.

    The rifle was originally picked up, to demo against several other patrol carbines for possible Departmental use. Long story short due to the initial issues it missed out completely as Mossberg had it for 3-4 months for possible repair. When I received the rifle back absolutely nothing was done to it and Mossberg support blamed it on 5.56 ammo, which at the time was PPU M193, PPU 62 grain, Federal Lake City XM855

    Initially I set the rifle up like this.. Leupold AR Mod 1 3-9 Firedot with a Leupold AR mount.
    Optimized-20170813_135704.jpg

    and the rifle was consistently doing this.. @ 100 yds.
    Optimized-20170813_134541.jpg


    With the original intent of purchase now pretty much negated.. I left the rifle in the meantime with our range officers so others could get a feel for it.. The results I started hearing were not pretty, I was getting mixed reports of the bolt riding over the next round, Very sloppy magazine lockup, and issues when using the rifle from various shooting positions used to simulate real world situations.. prone, supported, unsupported.. etc. And lastly 1 unconfirmed report of the bolt not resetting the trigger while cycling.

    Next I went to work on the rifle myself.. I swapped out the magwelll with a Tromix made aluminum version, and replaced the trigger guard with an aluminum trigger guard since the plastic one was gonna get broken.. eventually.
    This resolved the sloppy magwell issue which in turn seems to resolved the bolt riding over the next round in the magazine. I also swapped the mount to a set of medium height Leupold Quick detachable rings.. and this required I remove the rear sight so the scope would sit properly. The new positioning of the scope gave me a more natural cheek weld and may explain some of what happened today.

    So today...
    I took the rifle back out to 50 yards.. the 100 yard range was a mud pit and will have to be followed up in my Part 2.

    The rifle as it sits now...
    Optimized-20180121_140454.jpg

    Take note of the height of the scope as it sits much closer to the bore..
    Optimized-20180121_140508.jpg

    Also worth noting is the removal of the rear sight to allow the scope to clear using these rings.. just an FYI that possibly tall rings would allow it to clear.
    Optimized-20180121_140519.jpg

    Next onto the fun part..
    The Ammo used in my test today..
    Optimized-20180121_140320.jpg

    I tried a wide selection.. just to see if anything changes.. PPU M193, Federal 55 gr. Remington UMC .223 55 gr. Federal Lake City XM855 62 gr. And lastly for Giggles and S***s! WPA .223 55 gr. Military classic.

    First off after a quick check of boresight and scope alignment I fired off a 5 shot group of PPU M193 55 grain. And much to my surprise I pulled out a decent group.. this was cold bore first 5 shots.
    I was hitting high about 2-2.5 inches roughly elevation and just about perfect windage.
    Optimized-20180121_141321.jpg

    Satisfied I decided to use this to check how other ammo types grouped.. no adjustment to the scope was made so remaining will all be High about 2-2.5 inches.

    Next up Remington UMC .223 55gr.
    Optimized-20180121_142037.jpg

    Federal American Eagle MSR 55gr.
    Optimized-20180121_142927.jpg

    WPA .223 Military Classic (Steel Case Wolf)
    Optimized-20180121_143613.jpg

    And unfortunately I did not grab any Pictures of the Lake City 62gr XM855
    But it shot the widest group.. and while not terrible.. it opened up noticeably.


    So now I am thinking.. Was the other mount just too high for a proper cheek weld? Or is this just a fluke?
    It's shooting where I expected it to be now.. but keep in mind 50 yards.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  2. stampeed valkyrie

    stampeed valkyrie .22LR

    Messages:
    16
    I then decided to zero the rifle at 50 yards using PPU M193 55 grain.. cause it's what I have the most of on hand currently.

    Optimized-20180121_145301.jpg

    Literally right where I expected it to be.. NOT on a cold bore this time sitting at about +2.5 above bull.

    I walked it down abit and left it at this..
    Optimized-20180121_150553.jpg

    And that is Part 1...

    I need to get another chance to get back out at 100 yards... for part 2.

    Things worth noting from this range experience..
    I had the Magazine work itself loose on me twice after shooting.. It could have been operator error but I will keep my eyes on it.
    Also I did NOT encounter any issues with cycling the bolt and not resetting the trigger.

    Part 1 summary... I'm not sure if this is a fluke or what.. but the rifle at least on this day has redeemed itself and I have not called it Minute of Softball today at all.. :)
    Overall and I said this before.. this rifle tries to fill a niche that currently doesn't exist.. you can get a reasonably priced MSR for less then Mossberg sells this for and it will do everything the MVP does but better. From my standpoint.. this rifle has a neat gimmick and for those living in Restrictive states.. MOVE! but could see use there.

    My .02 cents

    And the funny is WPA grouped the best out of all of them.. so much for crappy Russian Ammo!
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  3. nitesite

    nitesite Sheepdog Forum Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    5,216
    Great job SV. Excellent write up and review.
  4. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    My Fal prefers wolf 308 too.

    Even though most folks will tell you not to use steel cased 308 in a Fal.
  5. Buffalo Jim

    Buffalo Jim .22LR

    Messages:
    21
    I'm one of those living in a restrictive state (NY). After a long break from shooting I got the bug again and picked up a Ruger 1022 takedown and started shooting at a local indoor range. It shot poorly and even the range guys couldn't figure out why. I traded it in for a Ruger American compact 22. Great accurate rifle but not too macho. Saw an ad for Troy's PAR in 2014 and since it was legal here I ordered one. Initially it was very accurate and fun to shoot. Bought a Burris Prism scope and a bunch of 10 round Mags. However, over time the pump mechanism began to loose it's smoothness. The Range Smith polished the feed ramps but that didn't help. I was brousing Troy's 2017 catalog and noticed (in fine print) that an upgrade kit was available to fix the pump action on the PAP for $51 including shipping. Ordered a kit and after a few weeks and many phone calls I received the kit. After the installation it shot like new. However, over a short time the problems returned and I traded it in on the MVP Patrol. Much simpler and easier to live with. I had lots of 10 round mags and a variety of scopes that could work with the MVP Patrol. My first outing I had the Monstrum 3x9 scope on quick detach rings and they seemed to loosen now and then. The second range visit was with a 3x9 Bugbuster on Nikon rings and the result was somewhat better. Both visits were with CBC 556 ammo. My Avatar is my current target I used at 50 yards. This was a new rifle that Cabela's had just received and it has some differences from the current catalog and general descriptions. The bolt has a larger knob and there isn't much mag wobble if the Mossberg or Lancer 10 round mags are used. Pmags worked well but wobble more. Action is pretty smooth for what it is and I'm happy with it. The Mini-14 was another option for me but it seemed that the MVP patrol had less issues and is less likely to be affected by future gun restrictions here.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  6. stampeed valkyrie

    stampeed valkyrie .22LR

    Messages:
    16
    I'm still waiting on a good day to get out to the 100yd to follow up on this. I almost got out Saturday but the Mrs. had other ideas!

    @Buffalo Jim Unfortunately no matter what you get the endgame of states like NY is total disarmament and nothing will be safe. Not trying to start a political debate so I'll end that there.
    You also mentioned the Mini-14.. My only experiences with that particular rifle come from our use of some late 80's Mini 14GBs that we have on hand.. nobody really uses them unless they are looking for some range time and on the rare occasion I see corrections officers loan them out. They are not real accurate at all.. I'd call them minute of pie plate at best and mostly because of the pencil thin barrels these things have and the fairly rudimentary irons that Ruger has on them. The newer Mini-14's apparently have heavier barrels and are also more optic friendly, but to be honest with the current MSR pricing you can purchase a colt or similar for the same price.

    I was half tempted to try out the .308 mvp patrol but I am reading more problems with that platform then the .556 so I think I will pass.

    @John A. off topic here but are there any good references on the FNFAL you can point out.. I need to become a quick study as I just inherited 2 of them. I want to make sure I know what I have before I go out and shoot them.
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  7. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    13,171
  8. Buffalo Jim

    Buffalo Jim .22LR

    Messages:
    21
    Stampeed valkyrie, I went to a range shoot at the local range hosted by Armalite a while back and got the bug for a semi auto. The Mini-14 ranch version was about the only NY legal semi that allowed detachable mags. I read a lot of articles on ways to make it more accurate and with buffers and different gas blocks to make it more civilized. Too many projects for one rifle to make it acceptable. Either most buyers are satisfied with it as is or some have Gunsmith abilities. So, I picked up a S&W M&P 15 Sport ll with the pinned 10 round mag and inoperable mag release button; installed a muzzle brake, lighter trigger from POF , a BAD lever and an ECCO grip. Shoots great and is very accurate. Just slow shooting having to separate the action and manually load the next 10 rounds.

    When i started shooting I used a hand me down Mossberg single shot 22. Dead accurate and super dependable. Super happy with my MVP Patrol 223/556 with detachable 10 round mags.
  9. stampeed valkyrie

    stampeed valkyrie .22LR

    Messages:
    16
    Ok some updates... I got a chance to get over to the range today.. and the Gun gods did not want to cooperate. Camera just stop taking pictures.. very weird.. will post what I have so far.

    So very cold, snowy/sleet weather today figured nobody would be out being SuperBowl Sunday and all ;).

    I went to try multiple magazines to nail down the magazine falling out issue.

    Optimized-20180204_153954.jpg

    (Starting from the left) Mossberg factory 10 rd, GI 20, ProMag 20, GI 30, PMag 30.

    ALL Magazines pulled out if wiggled around enough... even the Mossberg Factory mag..
    But wait it gets better.. during my ammo testing every magazine functioned properly EXCEPT the Mossberg 10 rd.
    with 5 rounds in the Magazine it would not load the first round smoothly, then double feed the 2nd. Causing the operator to remove the magazine and clear the malfunction.

    All other magazines fed without issue..

    Ammo types I used today (did not get a chance to test 223 40 grain)

    Optimized-20180204_154249.jpg


    First 5 shots on cold bore with PPU 55gr M193.. this is the same ammo I zero'd @50yds.

    Optimized-20180204_160139.jpg


    And the rest due to camera pictures I have no pictures for :(

    I was not disappointed in the groups but my 50 yard zero was off.. I need to rezero @ 100 and hopefully my camera cooperates.
    the results mirrored the 50 yard testing.. and I ran out of usable daylight.

    Will come back with pictures next time.
  10. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    13,171
    I wouldn't watch the super bowl if they paid ME.

    I couldn't even tell you which two teams are competing.

    Odd that all of the magazines are not working. Maybe call Mossberg and ask their opinion about it. Especially since their own mag isn't feeding properly.

    223 ammo however, has a rainbow trajectory. So, at 50 and 100, will have pretty big difference in POA/POI
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  11. stampeed valkyrie

    stampeed valkyrie .22LR

    Messages:
    16
    Yea I hear you on the superbowl.. no interest either regardless of who is playing.

    As for Mossberg.. is it even worth it? This was my first time out with their specific magazine.. I've been using that promag 20rd and I thought maybe it was just a crappy promag magazine when it came out.. To see it happen with all of them is weird, Some fell out easier then others.. and some took some wiggling but they ALL came unseated.. I just popped all of them into a spike's tactical lower I was building. They all lock up without issue..

    I wanna get a definitive range report before I post my conclusion.. trying to stay objective.. :rolleyes:
  12. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    13,171
    That's certainly up to you.

    I admit that I don't know what kind of spring they're using, or even the type of mag catch, it sounds like an issue that if I couldn't fix, I'd be calling to see what they recommend.
  13. stampeed valkyrie

    stampeed valkyrie .22LR

    Messages:
    16
    Sorry for the late Response but here is my Part 3 and overall conclusion..

    I headed back out again.. this time 100 yards and the same overall issues as listed in my previous 2 posts are still prevalent.
    I rezero'd for 100 yards and shooting Winchester (Whitebox) .223 45gr HP I was able to pull this group.

    Optimized-20180930_160834.jpg

    Now some background.. I was not using a rifle vice, and was shooting from a bench with support from my range bag. I had a flyer to the left.. but that had to have been me.
    This is great! however this is using .223 not 5.56 which the barrel is marked and rated for.

    My 5.56 pictures have the same results as previously listed.
    The picture below gives you an idea of a 3 shot group.. I was using .77gr Black Hills Match Grade Ammo.

    Optimized-20180930_162547.jpg

    This is unacceptable @ 100yds. As I mentioned previously I can get better groups with our long used and abused Colt LE6920s using the same Leupold optic.

    And the magazine falling out is probably the kicker here.. without the Tromix Mag well the rifle is unreliable as mentioned previously. Now with the mag well the magazine keeps falling free.
    I have one of our Armorers taking a look at the mag release issue, hopefully it gets resolved.

    So now here it is.. my Summary.

    Would I buy this rifle.. No.

    I am assuming most people reading this are aware of this thread and the other that I discussed what was happening.
    Between Mossberg's complete lack of acknowledging there was a problem, then sending it to Mossberg and having them tell me there is no problem.. and then me able to reproduce the same problem and find additionals.. you get where this is going.

    Things I liked about this rifle.. ease of handling, and the trigger as both positives. Bolt operates smoothly and is operator friendly.
    Pretty Accurate with .223 (45-55gr)

    Things I dislike about this rifle.. Mossberg support (useless), 5.56 Accuracy is subpar for a Bolt gun 2+ MOA. Magazine issues, feeding and cycling issues with factory magwell.
    Documented issues with using the rifle in various shooting positions (prone, supported, unsupported) and the magazine falling free after 2 to 3 shots.

    I can confidently say that for its price point $600-$700 you can acquire an AR platform rifle that will out perform this gun in just about every way imaginable.


    That's my .02 on this..


    Rob
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  14. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Not sure what the barrel twist rate on the MVP barrel is. I personally prefer a 1:8 with a wylde chamber if I had my druthers about it. Myself, I have little need to shoot the big expensive heavy bullets. Especially at nothing more than paper. If I want a long heavy bullet, I switch to something other than 223.

    Though,. while using barrels with 1:9 and shooting heavy 70+ gr bullets, I often get groups like that with my AR's too.

    And by guessing while looking at your 77 grain target results, which you feel is unacceptable, I would guess the mvp barrel is a slower 1:9 twist rate and not stabilizing the long heavier bullets as well as it is the shorter, lighter, and faster 55 grain bullets.

    If that's the case, it isn't a flaw of the gun as much as it is you not understanding the limitations of your equipment. Comparing it to a colt 6920 that has a 1:7 twist rate isn't exactly comparing apples just because they're both chambered in 5.56x45. Look at the barrel twist rate on your mvp is what you need to look at and then spend a few minutes and research what bullet weights the twist rate was designed to use.

    1:7's will shoot the longer, heavier bullets better than a 1:9, or 1:12 twist barrels will. That much is true whether you're shooting a bolt gun, or something else.

    My reply isn't meant to sound condescending, so if it does, I apologize in advance. There's only so many ways to point out when someone is wrong about something. It's not meant as derogatory.

    Since you don't seem inclined to tackle fixing it, here's what I would recommend for your armorer. As for the mags dropping out of the gun, I think that could be fixed too. I'd check to make sure there is nothing obstructing the mag catch from engaging the mag properly and if it's OK, I'd either replace it, or if it's metal and he wanted to get bubba on it, weld a spot onto the surface of the catch where it would engage the magazine and file it smooth to add some thickness to the contact surface.

    Either way, there are plenty of other mvp's that don't drop the mags out, so if they work, this one could be repaired too. If it was a widespread problem, would probably be a different story, but this is the only instance I've heard about it.
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  15. Buffalo Jim

    Buffalo Jim .22LR

    Messages:
    21
    I bought the MVP Patrol last year and noticed that it has several changes (improvements) from their initial offerings. The bolt handle is similar to the higher caliber model and there is very little wobble in the magwell using Mossberg and Lancer mags. My eyes are 72 years old and a one hour range session seems to tire them. Last session I replaced the Bug Buster 3x9 with a Sig sauer Romeo5 Red Dot. Still needs a little more adjusting but it's easy on the eyes and is holding zero, or close to it. The local range has a 25 and 50 yard section but nothing longer. 50 yards seems to work for me. My M&P Sport ll is a little more accurate but I prefer shooting the Mossberg. I can't put 3-5 shots into one hole but I can get them all into the kill zone. My ammo preference currently is Magtech 5.56 55 grain.
  16. stampeed valkyrie

    stampeed valkyrie .22LR

    Messages:
    16
    @John A.
    Take a look back at my previous posts.. I have shot mutliple weights of 5.56 and they all average about the same. The twist rate one the 5.56 patrol I believe is 1:9 which ideally should be 55gr to 62gr. We use LC XM193 which is 55gr. and XM855 62gr. In my tests I used PPU and Federal of both weights and they all did the same. As I documented I did take note of a difference between .223 in those weights and 5.56. Mossberg themselves states the rifle is shooting out of spec, yet they did nothing to address it.. as I commented previously.

    I used the LE6920 as an example.. a quick google search shows it has a 1:7 twist and it stabilized everything the MVP patrol could not. I could probably easily locate a 1:9 twist AR as they are probably the most common. I will check to see if our M&P's meet this and I can shoot again, but I do not expect anything different. Again read back to the OP and what this rifle was intended for, I tried to give it a fair shake.. and it got more then that. To put it simply Mossberg sells this rifle to LE, I would honestly say IT cannot do the job as intended with the problems I encountered. Between Support or lack there of, and the need to modify the rifle just to resolve issues it should have never cleared the factory with.

    My tests have been pretty open, and I am closing the book on this. What they decide to do with it now is up to the County.


    @John A.
    I also still need to take a look at those FAL rifles.. I have had zero time to do anything lately..
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  17. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    I don't expect that a 1:9 AR will shoot the 77 gr any better than the mvp is either. That's about a typical group from my experience with that combination.

    I also don't disagree that mossberg should've addressed the mag catch. They get no free pass from me for their lack of doing so. I will say, and agree that's not how it should be done. And especially on an LE issue gun.

    The 77 gr group though, I don't really think is out of spec. An average 1:9 barrel simply will not shoot the heaviest bullets out there well. The 77 gr bullets are relatively new (being within the last 15 years or so), and the industry has moved on to 1:7 and 1:8 twists that work with them better. Just finding a 1:9 barrel on a factory new gun these days is increasingly difficult. That 1:9 barrel that is on the gun will be forever limited to the 65 gr and less ammo with any reasonable degree of expectation.

    Sure, as you can see, it'll physically shoot the long heavy bullets, but it is what it is on paper. It will not ever be any better than what you're getting with heavy bullets. It's just not set up for them.

    I wasn't aware that it was a dept issued gun, and in that case, I sincerely 100% understand why you can't or don't just start fixing it yourself. I thought it was a personal rifle. My apologies.
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  18. Buffalo Jim

    Buffalo Jim .22LR

    Messages:
    21
    I mentioned that my new to me Red Dot needs a little more fine tuning. It seemed good but would wander to the right now and then. When my hour was up I began packing up and when I grabbed the bean bag I saw a rifle part sitting on top of it. Turned out that it was the front receiver bolt. It had a long red mark on the threads, red Locktite I assume. Haven't had time to reinstall it but suspect it had an affect on accuracy. First questionable issue so far.
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