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Noob 930 field/security combo guy ... looking for advice

Discussion in 'Mossberg 930 Autoloader' started by JCinPA, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Wow! so much information here! I've spent a couple of days reading this forum, and have a couple of questions if you wouldn't mind--I'm sure it's in here somewhere. It is just so voluminous. Thanks in advance. And sorry for the length of this screed--I figure it will help you answer if you understand what my goals are.

    I bought this because I had (still do) a Mossberg 500 Field Pump shotgun, and I had owned (later sold) a tricked out 500 security with SureFire forend, Ghost Ring sights, TacStar sidesaddle, etc. Decided I'm more of a bare bones guy, and didn't like all the gimcracks and geegaws, so I sold that, but kept my 500 field gun with 28" barrel.

    I bought the 930 Field/Security combo (SN: AF016xxx, so probably made around 2007-ish) because I love my 500 and I thought I might start shooting trap regularly. Since I had sold the tricked out 500 security, I got the combo. I promptly got a job in Chicago, and for the last 8-9 years, have not fired a shotgun at all.

    Based on what I have sitting in the basement after a long hiatus from the shotty, I believe it has has had three boxes of target shells through it with the long barrel, and about ten shells of Federal LE 132 00 Flite Control Wad low recoil 00-buckshot with the short barrel. I do not recall any problems with it, but it was a long time ago, and my memory ... well ... :idk:

    So, I joined this forum, cleaned up my shotguns really good (Jerry Miculek video on the 930 is a life saver), and start reading. :omg: I realize I went through a 70-page thread on troubleshooting, and a lot of folks have had terrific luck with this gun so it was a lopsided view--but boy, oh boy, it's not a Mossberg 500 in terms of reliability, evidently. I also garnered that my field/security combo may be more reliable than the SPX variants (not sure why, though). Frankly, I am not a competitor so I could not care less if I cannot shoot target loads with the 18.5" barrel, and I'm not going to buy accessories to make it do so. I understand the issue is with dwell time--the 18.5" barrel may not have enough to work the piston fully with light loads.

    However, I DO expect it to run flawlessly with target loads with the 28" barrel and I am more than a little disappointed to read that some folks have had only 80-85% reliability with that Federal LE 132 00. I don't care if it is "low recoil", it is premium (and expensive) defensive ammo, and IMO this gun should run it like buttered ice even with the 18.5" barrel, and without customized spacer tubes or pistons! I love Mossberg because (I thought) they are both economical and reliable. So, a few questions, if you'll help a noobie out. I'll number them so you can reply to one or two, not the whole list. Again, thanks in advance.

    1. I've been reading primarily about the 930 SPX variants in here, I believe. I have not read a lot about the field configuration. Am I correct in assuming that with the 28" barrel and proper maintenance on my part, I can expect flawless performance with the ammo shown below? I think the Winchester stuff is discontinued but it's #8 shot stuff.

    2. Are there any of you who have had 100% reliability with that Federal LE132 00 load with the 18.5" barrel without any modifications? If you have the SBE piston and/or the OR3GUN spacer tube, that's no good to me, as I'm trying to avoid putting over $100 of custom parts in this thing if I can avoid it. I've read enough to know that that load will run 100% usually with either modification, and definitely with both of those mods. I want to know what the odds are I can get away without them. Again, only for that load as I have about 175 shells of it lying around and I love the stuff.

    3. If the answer to the above is probably not, and knowing I am not looking to make the damn thing a hobby (I have a motorcycle for that :laugh:), if I must spend money, I'm going to do it one thing at a time, and my primary goal is to make the Federal load run with the 18.5" barrel. So if I do need parts, should I get the OR3GUN spacer tube first, or the SBE stainless piston first? And which OR3GUN tube to optimize the short barrel with the Federal load? They have a half dozen or more and like I said, I'm not interested in shooting 3-gun. Just making a reliable defender out of it. I have no idea what the variants of their tube are designed for.

    4. Breaking in just consists of shooting it and cleaning it a bunch, right? No real difference if I do that with the long barrel and target loads to save some dough, right? Shooting $500 worth of the Federal doesn't appeal to me. :laugh: Just make it go bang a lot and clean and it will work itself in?

    Thanks again! I'm looking forward to playing with this a lot now that I'm back in PA!

    Cheers,

    John

    EDIT: Forgot the ammo ... this is the target stuff I have
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
    meanstreak likes this.
  2. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    2,608
    There are a number of knowledgeable people that can guide you with the 930. I'll offer what comes to mind but they can advise better, perhaps...

    The 930 should be broken in. I think the break-in is about 100rds but don't quote me on this.

    Then I think the 28" barrel will perform differently from the 18" because it holds the gases in a little longer. So test your loads with the 18" barrel (after break-in) to see how they perform.

    BTW, Welcome Aboard! :)
    meanstreak likes this.
  3. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Thanks, Bobster, I appreciate the reply. You are right, the issue with different loads is dwell time, which is longer with the longer barrel.

    Specifically, I'm looking for guidance on:

    a) whether I can expect it to work flawlessly with target loads with the longer barrel ... I think it should.

    b) will it work flawlesslessly with that specified Federal LE3200 load and the shorter barrel or not (DGAD about target loads with it)

    c) if not, assuming I want to put as little into it as possible, should I get the OR3GUN tube first or the SBE piston first?

    I kinda know if I do both it's gonna meet my requirements, guaranteed.

    Thanks.
    meanstreak likes this.
  4. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Wow, looking at my last post and my first, I realize, I'm pretty chatty. Sorry. The second one lays it all out there concisely. That's what I want to know.
    meanstreak likes this.
  5. Rob72

    Rob72 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    103
    Possibly. Because the shot has longer dwell-time in the barrel, more gas travels to the piston, generating more cycling energy. If you have a dragging action spring, or other burrs, etc., that may not be the case. If you have some rounds through it, strip it down again, and look for scoring marks in the action spring tube and on the magazine tube. If you see them, use a Dremel, or small file, to remove burrs where the ends of the spring(s) rub.
    As above, but with the addition:
    you don't have to spend big money for wide-range reliability. $26 for the Field or Competition ASR will let you adjust, as needed. The Field is easier, as you don't have to remove anything more than the buttpad to switch resistance.
    http://or3gun.com/OR3GUN/about_or3gun_plunger.htm

    As above(investing as little as possible and ensuring reliability, buy the ASR first), but the SBE piston is worthwhile as another addition. The MSR is more about keeping the action clean, with high volume rounds of shooting, and decreasing condensation causing rust around the mag tube. If you're hunting, or live someplace with high humidity, or cold, go ahead and save up for the MSR and the piston.

    Pretty much, but if you just go through looking for rough spots on springs and parts, and clean them up, you probably don't need anything.

    It sounds like you're already hobby-fying your 930, so you may just want to save up for the Competition Internals Combo. It's the best price, for everything you're after. The only difference between that and my set up is that you'll have to remove the stock to adjust the tension on the action spring. The Field ASR lets you pull the buttpad to the side, and use a metal rod to move the spring retainer to increase or decrease the spring pressure.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
    meanstreak likes this.
  6. nitesite

    nitesite Average Guy Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    6,134
    Hello.

    You say you don't care if LE 132 00 is low recoil, but it should run the gun smoothly.

    Well, as a long time tactical shotgunner (not a gamer but a pretty serious shotgunner) I will give you my opinion.

    LE 132 00 only generates 1145-fps. It is VERY underpowered, even from a pump gun. I have seen after action shooting reports where that load failed badly against winter clothing or leather jackets. It is very improbable that any unaltered semi-auto gas gun will run with it. Even worse, I have repeatedly NEVER seen LE 132 00 run in an inertial tactical Benelli.

    LE 127 00 does 1325-fps and works gas guns really really well. And Benelli shotguns also. https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/buckshot/details.aspx?id=696

    It is still lower recoil compared to 1600-fps 1-oz slugs and is a very comfortable round.

    Federal P154 00 is also a 9-pellet copper plated 00 buck load without the FliteControl wad and is less expensive but still VERY effective. It is part of the Federal PREMIUM line of law enforcement buckshot. https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/buckshot/details.aspx?id=472
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
    meanstreak likes this.
  7. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Wow! Now I am I super-glad I signed up here! Terrific replies, both of these.

    First, I had not come across anything about the recoil system thus far in my reading, and there is a ton of stuff on the Marine Spacer and also on the SBE piston. Rob72, yours was the first post that made me think those products may be aimed at high shot volume competitors, which is not me. They may be nice mods, but perhaps not the first place to look for my goals. I had not read about the CSP or the ASR, and I had to watch the video at OR3GUN twice to wrap my mind around it. Having done that, my thought is I'd probably be better off with the CSP as a one-part solution rather than the ASR, especially given the scoring issue they highlight. However, now that I understand it, I'm not opposed to getting both parts, it's not that expensive and seems to be aimed more directly at my goals (low volume trap shooting, reliable, low volume defensive shooting-not high-volume competition shooting). Unless I don't understand the parts and their function or their advice, I think I will order the Competition CSP/ASR Set, polished, for $46.95, as it gives me the most adjustability (0-15% reduction). I could get just the polished CSR and go with 10% reduction, but what the heck, with shipping, I think I'll get both, if I am right that these parts will address my goals better than the spacer and piston. I'm OCD about gun cleaning, too, so there's that.

    Second, I never even thought about the ammo because everyone likes to review the LE132 00, I am hard-pressed to find a review of the LE127 00. I've shot it through the Mossberg 500, so no thought to reliability at all with a pump. That's probably why the low recoil stuff gets all the press. But your comment about LE132 00 not operating the Benelli effectively and not defeating winter clothing or leather jackets really caught me up short! WHAT???!! I thought 00-Buck was a deathstar ray to everything! Are you an LEO? Thank you for those two little bits of knowledge!

    Given that the 930 should exhibit a bit less recoil than the 500, and the fact that I've mastered the Rob Haught, push-pull technique and am not particularly afraid of recoil, I think I'll get some of that LE127 00 ammo you recommend! I love the flite control wad, I wish 8-pellet was more available (I don't even know if they make it, frankly), but I'll go with the faster ammo for more reliable stopping power every time. I mean, isn't that why we like shotguns? They're definitive? If I want to dance with a perp, I'll use a handgun.

    Anyway, at the moment, unless I hear more, I'm going to order that Competition CSP/ASR combo, and some of the LE127 00 ammo and be happy. Looks like the recoil parts will eliminate any reliability with target loads and the long barrel, and the ammo might eliminate the problem without any parts, but the combination of the two certainly should.

    Thank you both, very much. I'll wait for a few more days for other replies, but that's my plan as of now.

    Edit: P.S. I plan on doing the whole 9-yards, in the OR3GUN video, filing and polishing the spring-end, cleaning out the recoil tube, etcetera, in addition to just the parts.

    Cheers,

    John
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
    meanstreak and nitesite like this.
  8. Rob72

    Rob72 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    103
    :welcome: I believe you'll enjoy your 930 John, and I think the CSP/ASR is the perfect start.

    I would largely agree with nitesite on the low recoil rounds, save that a gas gun is more likely to feed at 1145 fps than Benelli. The Benni's inertial system doesn't like low velocity/low dram loads, and also starts to choke if you add accessories beyond a certain number of grams ( stuff I used to know & have noted somewhere...)

    All that to say, IF you 930 feeds the LE132, it could be a decent home load, if you have children/family members in the same house because it probably isn't going through more than 1 sheetrock panel. Again, if your gun feeds them, you can throw more lead really fast. If you don't have other people to worry about, yes, I'd step up too, but probably to the basic #4 for less recoil. I've been working through bilateral "frozen shoulder" the past 18 months, but would still stay full power for social purposes.

    My favorite burn-it-up practice ammo is Suprema #8 low brass, running 1315 fps. I've used up over 750 rounds.
    meanstreak likes this.
  9. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Thanks, again, Rob72. Wow, double frozen shoulder? That is no fun at all. Do what the therapists tell you! It sucks, but I've beaten it twice (only on one side).

    Yes, I am grateful for the recoil suggestions, because now that I think about the physics of this, that's probably the best place to start. And since I'm not a high-volume competitor, it may be the end of my quest; while the OR3GUN spacer tube and SBE piston are wonderful products, by all accounts, I may not need them.

    I do not have others in the house anymore (other than wifey who would be with me in a defensive situation or I'd know where she is). I'm not in a big hurry to run out and get some LE127-00 because I still have about 125 rounds or so of LE132-00 to shoot. But I am intrigued by nitesite's comments on stopping power. I'm going to look for some terminal ballistics stories on it. I keep either a Glock 9mm or a 45 1911 on the nightstand with good defensive rounds and train often. If I'm going to bother to step up to a shotgun for a defensive tool, I may as well step up all the way, not part of the way. Most likely the LE132 will cycle with the recoil mods, I suspect. According to nitesite, though the LE127 should work even without the mods and certainly with them.

    I'm on the right path now, thanks. Ordered the competition set CSP/ASR from OR3GUN. I'll report back in this thread how she works with some Winchester and Estate target loads and the LE132.
    meanstreak likes this.
  10. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    [​IMG]

    I forgot to ask this ... the video at the OR3GUN website about the CSP indicates I should have no trouble with the target loads with the 10% spring rate reduction. nitesite assures me Federal LE127 runs right with the gun as-is, and I suspect the LE132 will run well with the 10% spring rate reduction. I simply got the ASR, in addition, to save shipping and give me some added flexibility which I may or may not need. I was planning on leaving it in the neutral position and going with the 10% rate reduction of the CSP alone.

    Since I have the option, though, I thought I'd ask if I'm better off trying a -5% reduction first, the theory being to deviate from manufacturer spec as little as possible. The ASR gives me a -5% and a -15% option in addition to the -10% option of the CSP alone. I'm probably overthinking this, but if either of you wants to dissuade me from the 10% (neutral ASR position) and advise starting with only a 5% reduction, please let me know. Thanks!

    I will report back, whatever I do.
    meanstreak likes this.
  11. Rob72

    Rob72 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    103
    Honestly, if all you'll be shooting is reduced recoil and lighter target loads, I would start at less 5% and see how it cycles. Starting lighter (-10%) may have your carrier bottoming out if you step up to 1350+ fps and you may not feel it. I would not expect it to, but each gun is just a bit different.
    meanstreak likes this.
  12. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Thanks, Rob72. I was wondering about that. If it expands reliability with lighter loads, what would happen with hotter loads? The LE127 nitesite recommends is 1325. I'm glad I got the adjustable ASR as well as the CSP, I will start at -5%.
  13. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Thanks again to both of you for your suggestions. My OR3GUN parts arrived today. :)

    The instructions that came with the ASR state: Use of the first hole (closest to the rounded end) will lessen the spring rate compared to the OEM part, while the other 3 holes will increase spring rate. When used in conjunction with one of our CSPs, the end user will have many options for tuning the effective spring rate for the load range being used.

    The instructions that came with the CSP state: The CSP ... will reduce the effective spring rate of the recoil system for proper cycling of the lightest competition and field loads.

    Neither states by how much the parts will affect the spring rate, but per the above, my goal is reliability with target loads with the 28" barrel and with the LE132 with the security barrel. The gun will not be fired in high volumes and will be meticulously cleaned after each range outing, then left in "cruiser ready" for home defense.

    I'm planning on starting with the CSP installed and the ASR in the second hole from the rounded end, assuming that will give me the least amount of reduction for first experiment? I'd like to confirm that, however, if I should actually be starting on another hole. Rob72, any ideas? I'll PM the sponsor to come take a look as well. This is a little confusing (like adjusting your scope reticle :lol: ) so I want to be careful.

    EDIT: I've thought through this logically, and am no longer worried about the scope adjustment type confusion issue. Hole #1 (from rounded end) cannot be the one, because that would reduce the spring rate (SR) more than with the CSP alone, which is what I do not want. Therefore it must be hole #2 or #3 where I start, all I want to confirm is that hole #2 does not increase the SR by the exact amount that the CSP reduces it, leaving me at the OEM SR, in which case I'd start on hole #3. I suspect that the second hole increases the SR by something less than the CSP decreases it, and that would be where I want to start. Looking for confirmation before heading to the range. Thanks!

    OR3GUN_parts.jpg
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
    Bobster likes this.
  14. OR3GUN

    OR3GUN Sponsor Sponsor

    Messages:
    220
    The further the ASR is pushed into the recoil tube from the back, the higher the pre-load and the higher powered loads you can run. Now that we've confirmed the proper direction to move things to increase/decrease the pre-load on the spring we can address the amount each position adjusts.

    The Competition CSP is about a 10% reduction by itself. The ASR hole position #2 (from the rounded end) is closest to the stock spring retainer, maintaining that 10% when coupled with the Competition CSP. You will move the reduction about 5% with each hole position. So, you can reduce down 15% with the Competition or back up to the factory setting (0%).

    Hope that clears things up for you.

    Thanks!

    William

    http://www.OR3GUN.com
    JCinPA likes this.
  15. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Awesome! Thank you so much, it does clear it up.

    So if I understand it, if I use hole #4 with the CSP, I'll have basically close to the factory SR. If I go to hole #3, I'll have -5%, hole #2 (closest to stock on the ASR, but -10% on the CSP) I'll have -10%, and if I go with hole #1, and the CSP, I'd end up with -15%.

    So that helped a lot, I didn't quite have it figured out. If I do now, with the CSP and moving from #4, farthest from rounded end, to #1, I get stock SR 0%, -5%, -10% and -15%. Perfect! Thank you!

    I'll try -5%, hole #3, and see how that goes, then experiment more if needed.
  16. Army_of_One

    Army_of_One Copper BB

    Messages:
    6
    I think I could add some info. I have an 18" SPX, a 24" Pro and the same ammo you're wanting to use. The stock SPX will do the Federal LE 00 no problem in stock configuration. My 930 pro(OR3GUN/SBE mod) will go down to 1000 FPS, but chokes on the AA Low Recoil/Low Noise #8 at 980 FPS.
  17. JCinPA

    JCinPA .410

    Messages:
    84
    Thanks, Army_of_One, I appreciate it. Some folks' guns have worked with my ammo from out of the box, there are plenty of posts here to indicate that. However, there are enough posts of problems, and enough YouTube videos that I would not be confident in a stock 930 for defensive purposes. For some, the OR3GUN Marine Spacer Tube did the trick alone. For others, the CSP did the trick alone.

    My thoughts have changed, and instead of just wanting the minimum of parts, I later ordered the MST (Multi-Purpose, OEM weight, teflon coated) as a reliability enhancer. The spring rate will help with reliability with light loads, and the MST will help with any potential moisture-related problems, (which I also may or may not have had). But simply because so many have had issues with LE132 and 1 oz target loads, I decided that for me to have pump-gun confidence in the gas gun, I would make these modifications. I am willing to bet that the 5% SR reduction along with the MST, will make my gun run with pump gun reliability, I won't go to a 10% SR reduction unless testing indicates I need to. And more parts, like a special piston are likely not needed in addition to these two mods, as I will never compete with the shotty, so my volumes will be low between cleanings.

    After much cogitation on this, I've decided pump guns are not absolutely reliable (although probably more so than gas guns). My friend has a 500C I sold him locked up tight right now, as a matter of fact. I have not seen it yet, so I don't know if it is a lifter problem or something else yet, but pump guns do occasionally fail. When I think on the reliability features of a gas gun, and the fact pumps are not infallible, I think with these two mods, I'll have a 930 about as reliable as a 500. At least that's my hope.

    MST tube should be here this week, CSP/ASR combo is already installed at 5% reduction (3rd hole from rounded end of ASR). I'll run a bunch of light loads and LE132 this weekend and report back. It may have been reliable out of the box, but I'll never know because I could not be confident in it that way. I think I will be with these parts. We'll see! I always figured the stock gun would run LE132, but just a couple stories about issues destroyed my confidence in the stock setup.
  18. chefboirc

    chefboirc Copper BB

    Messages:
    6
    Hi, following up on this a little, I ordered the Multi-Use combo the other day for a JM Pro, on the ASR position, which position would you put it on for the best all around to run light/heavy loads including 3"? Originally I was going to buy the competition combo, but reading the description it is geared more for 2 3/4". I plan on doing some sport shooting, but also some hunting.

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