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Noticing a lot of pistol caliber carbines being sold

Discussion in 'Long Guns' started by John A., Jul 18, 2017.

  1. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Dear Lord. At 2:51, those db numbers are terrible. I thought I picked up a lot of slap back echo at the beginning of the video when they were first shooting. Turns out, I was.

    147 gr Federals SUBSONICS are at 138 db. That's at the point where you really should be wearing ear pro and are going to ring your ears when you pull the trigger. A human ear cannot differentiate 2 or 3 db noise difference.

    Good gravy.

    I would be so embarrassed by those numbers.

    From looking at the chart, subsonic and supersonic are all performing about the same (db sound reduction-wise). Flipping awful.
  2. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

  3. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Here's a few more to add to the list. Not all of them are necessarily AR style though ;)

    http://www.olyarms.com/shop/pistol-caliber/pistol-caliber-carbines.html

    https://www.chiappafirearms.com/p.php?id=249

    https://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=889&category=Rifle

    https://www.americantactical.us/5721/detail.html

    https://www.bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/category/bt-mp9tp9

    https://masterpiecearms.com/cat/defender-series/rifles/9mm-rifles/

    host of MP5 clones. POF, Zenith, Omega. HK is even supposed to come out with a few new models soon.

    Don't forget all the models that Century International had going for a while. UC9, Sten, PPsh, etc.

    We live in interesting times.
    cmcdonald and SHOOTER13 like this.
  4. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw .30-06 Supporter

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    I'm really liking that Ruger PC Carbine. I think it would handle a lot like a M1 Carbine and have a very similar manual of arms.

    What I can't figure out is how, with an aluminum receiver and polymer stock, it can weigh a pound more than the M1 Carbine.
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  5. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Probably has to do with all the quick takedown pieces and such.

    It reminds me a lot of a revamped marlin camp carbine in a lot of ways to tell you the truth.

    I have been very critical of Bill Rugers political stance over the years to the point that I refused to buy a ruger product until years after he had died, and I think it may finally be time to let that go since his children seem to running the company better, but I am going to give them honest and solid praise for making that gun have an interchangeable magwell. I am so glad that a company is finally listening to the market and giving them what they want.

    Go ahead and mark it now, I predict a lot more companies will be following suit.

    To be perfectly honest, I'm shocked that someone hasn't already released an AR15 to glock mag adapter yet like the existing uzi adapters and sten mag adapters.

    A lot of the older 9mm AR guys that are running standard AR lowers would be interested in that and a modified bolt, rather than replacing an entire lower receiver.
    cmcdonald and SHOOTER13 like this.
  6. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Yea John...As I remember, Olympic Arms was one of the first to introduce Pistol Caliber Carbines.

    Me...I'm looking more towards the AR styled platforms...the Citadel, Ruger, Marlin, and others don't really peak my interest. I want modularity...

    I really like the JP...but not the price.

    I may just pickup a Kel Tec or Hi-Point just to get it out of my system...then use the bulk of my $$ for a .308 MSR.


    .
  7. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I understand.

    And nothing wrong with the hipoint, other than the neutered magazines.

    I somewhat understand that hipoint came to be during the ban years, so it has always had a 10 round mag by design.

    But the last few of feinsteins assault weapon bans that I have seen, they were listed by name on it despite they never were, so hipoint is only hurting itself by not having better mags now that they are legal and are going to be thrown in the same basket as all the other "scary" guns the next go round despite the fact anyway. In knowing that, if it were me, I'd say screw it and capitalize on it with normal capacity mags.

    My AR9 is the old colt style. Uses a standard lower with a mag block.

    I used to use the upper on my SBR all the time, but I grew tired of having to switch out the block and buffer all the time when I wanted to shoot something else. It's still ideal where "modularity" is concerned. But is annoying if you switch often. That's why I built a dedicated lower for it. I can still swap the upper and lower out on a whim, but is just easier not having to.

    Does the glock magazine lowers allow the ability to use 45, 10mm, 9mm mags all the same? Or are they more caliber specific mags? With having little experience with glock as a whole, that would be a big question that I would ask.

    My attraction to the glock mag lowers is a 9mm drum. Not that I can't have two 32 round uzi stick mag coupler for far less cost with 14 more rounds on tap. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
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  8. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    The lowers that take Glock Mags ARE caliber specific...

    In a 9mm config it would be G17 / G19... which is probably the way to go...High Capacity G17 mag loaded with a Hornady HP for home defense would work.

    The Kel Tec is functional butt ugly...( But, Ugly gets it done )...

    https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/sub-2000

    So far, I'm starting to like the KT SUB-2000...which comes in either 9mm or .40S&W...

    BUT...is available in the following Magazine Variants:


    • Smith & Wesson M&P (9mm or .40S&W)
    • Sig Sauer P226 (9mm or .40S&W)
    • Beretta 92 & 96 (9mm or .40S&W)
    • Glock 17 & 19 (9mm)...22 & 23 (.40S&W)

    { I have more 9mm SIG P226 Magazines (10) then any other make / caliber shown above }

    .
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  9. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Which magwell would work right with the 10mm/45acp variant?

    Glock 21 I assume?
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  10. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

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  11. 95jza80tt

    95jza80tt .270 WIN

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    As far as the glock specific lowers they fall into two category large frame and small frame. Small frame is for 9mm and .40. large frame is for .45 and 10mm.

    Xproducts has been making a 9mm drum for colt style 9mm lowers for a while now if this'll save you the hassle of building a glock AR9 for a different drum configuration.
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  12. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Beta mag also made a 100 round uzi drum.

    But I suppose like the Xproducts, they too are rather proud of them. (referring to the price)
    SHOOTER13 likes this.
  13. 95jza80tt

    95jza80tt .270 WIN

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    LOL, thats for sure.. I feel like carrying 2 stick mags is easier then a awkwardly shaped/sized drum mag, but they do look shnazy on the carbine though.
    SHOOTER13 and John A. like this.
  14. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw .30-06 Supporter

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    The biggest problem with the Hi-Point (I have a 995TS) is those blasted 10 round magazines. You can get higher capacity magazines, but they look like an abortion sticking out of the pistol grip. A very delicate looking abortion, at that.
    SHOOTER13 likes this.
  15. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Get an ATI stock for the Hipoint. They look more like a Beretta afterwards.

    Which is better than how they look originally. Really, I'm not making fun, but the hipoint looks like a python that just ate a goat right out of the box.
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  16. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Leaning more towards the Kel Tec SUB2K now John...the assortment of Hi-Cap magazines it will take is the best feature...then the fact you can fold it up to slip in a backpack for hiking / camping.

    I have Ten P226 9mm 15 round mags and then I can buy the Glock 17 9mm 17 Round mags at local stores.

    Locally...I can pick up the KT for around $400 OTD.

    .
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  17. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Lots of folks like a good backpack gun. No disagreement there.

    That's the main reason why I like the short carbines. You can put them in a pack, trunk, between the seat, etc.

    Though I normally use a sling when hiking these days.

    With the way that most packs have been using molle webbing all over them, allows a scabbard or sling to be mounted directly on your pack too. This is often more handy than a sling itself if you're carrying your gear in or out anyway.

    Especially if you need it in a hurry.
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  18. tattooo

    tattooo .30-06

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    +1 phenomenal little shooter
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  19. 95jza80tt

    95jza80tt .270 WIN

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    CZ Scorpion pistol or an AR9 pistol with folding brace adapters would be nice size to fit in backpacks as well.
  20. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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