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Novice needs accessory advice for home defense

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dwally

.22LR
Hello everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully provide some advice.

I have a mossberg 500 20 ga that I purchased for home defense about a year ago. I opted for the 20 ga because it's currently the only weapon in the home and I wanted my wife to be able to handle it. Anyway, we had a situation the other night that made me realize I need to do more with the gun.. Long story short, we had a uninvited guest lurking in the back yard, and I could have used some additional features.

As I said in the title, I'm a novice when it comes to guns so please bear with me. Right now I have no mounts or anything on the gun, its just right out of the box with a 5 round magazine and I opt to keep the shorter barrel on it.

1 - I KNOW I want to add a flashlight and laser pointer. What I don't know if its best to mount this on the magazine or where the scope would be. I'm leaning toward the scope area because I like that it would be close to the other areas I'm going to be touching when I grab the weapon in a rush. I'm obviously open to advice if I am looking at this wrong and would value any suggestions on specific products.

2 - I'm considering changing the stock from the factory one. Even with the short barrel, when I had to go outside, the gun seemed a little too long for my liking while going through the door. That being said, any stock I get MUST at the very least have the same recoil as the factory stock. Again, my wife needs to be able to handle the weapon, and right now she prefers to shoot from the hip because the recoil is borderline to much. Yes, even the 20 GA. Specific recommendations would really be appreciated or even advice on how to go through the door. (Its a little narrow)

3 - While I am at it I could add a device to hold extra ammo and maybe a foreend that improves the grip.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
dwally said:
Hello everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully provide some advice.

I have a mossberg 500 20 ga that I purchased for home defense about a year ago. I opted for the 20 ga because it's currently the only weapon in the home and I wanted my wife to be able to handle it. Anyway, we had a situation the other night that made me realize I need to do more with the gun.. Long story short, we had a uninvited guest lurking in the back yard, and I could have used some additional features.

As I said in the title, I'm a novice when it comes to guns so please bear with me. Right now I have no mounts or anything on the gun, its just right out of the box with a 5 round magazine and I opt to keep the shorter barrel on it.

1 - I KNOW I want to add a flashlight and laser pointer. What I don't know if its best to mount this on the magazine or where the scope would be. I'm leaning toward the scope area because I like that it would be close to the other areas I'm going to be touching when I grab the weapon in a rush. I'm obviously open to advice if I am looking at this wrong and would value any suggestions on specific products.

My flashlight is mounted on the mag tube/barrel with an Elzetta mount. I can do momentary or on/off with my thumb while I hold the forend.

2 - I'm considering changing the stock from the factory one. Even with the short barrel, when I had to go outside, the gun seemed a little too long for my liking while going through the door. That being said, any stock I get MUST at the very least have the same recoil as the factory stock. Again, my wife needs to be able to handle the weapon, and right now she prefers to shoot from the hip because the recoil is borderline to much. Yes, even the 20 GA. Specific recommendations would really be appreciated or even advice on how to go through the door. (Its a little narrow)

She NEEDS to learn to shoot the right way, from the shoulder. She risks hitting things she does not want hit. Aimed fire is the best fire. A Knoxx adjustable stock would fit the bill. It has recoil reduction and an adjustable length of pull (LOP). Low carry thru a door way would help you get thru the door.

3 - While I am at it I could add a device to hold extra ammo and maybe a foreend that improves the grip.

You could add an extended mag tube and/or a side saddle. The forend will be a personal choice as comfort goes.

Thanks in advance for any help!

No problem.
Click to expand...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KISmgUcFVhk[/youtube]
 
Thank you , Kodiak. I will be looking into those products ASAP.

What do you recommend for ammunition? Sadly, all I had was sport rounds.
 
Howdy dwally, and welcome to the club!

For home defense....00 buck.

the rest of the stuff....I have some choices fer ya..(i love amazon!! nice n cheap! :D )

http://www.amazon.com/Blackhawk-Spec-Op ... B0030V9624

http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/ite ... _12GA.aspx

http://www.opticsplanet.net/blackhawk-t ... stock.html

http://www.amazon.com/Blackhawk-Knoxx-S ... 284&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/BLACKHAWK-PowerPa ... d_sim_sg_1

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Defender-Hand ... _ai_ps_t_6

http://www.amazon.com/ATI-Tactical-Shot ... 042&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Tech-Tac ... 042&sr=1-9

http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Trirail- ... 42&sr=1-22

http://www.amazon.com/Elzetta-Flashligh ... 21&sr=1-32

http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Tactical-LED- ... 21&sr=1-41

http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Mossberg ... 21&sr=1-48


I hope I didn't overwhelm you....
 
For home defense in a house I say 00 buck. For home defense inside an apartment I say #1 buck.

Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless
 
Dwally, Welcome to MO! I hope we can be helpful and satisfactorily answer all your questions.

Home defense is a very subjective area for discussion and can get touchy. Its one of those things where there is no singular best answer. No matter, youre gonna get alot of of advice.

For the 20 ga. if its a standard 500 with the magazine lug attached to the barrel, you wont be able to extend the magazine tube. As far as I'm aware, all 500 20 ga.'s are gonna be like that. There are products that will alllow you to carry shells on the stock and there may be mounts to attach to the receiver, but I'm not sure about the 20 ga. again in this case.

For the stock, for the length of pull, especially an HD firearm, I feel the factory LOP is too long. There are several options available, one is to get the short LOP stock from Mossberg, like the bantam stock or youth model stock. It retains factory characteristics with no new learning curve. I'm told by Hogue that their OverMolded short LOP stock will work too. You can call Hogue anytime and ask;

Ask for Zia, shes my contact there for any questions I have or when I need help.
1 800 GET GRIP (800 438-4747) or (805) 239-1440
If you call, just tell her we sent you, or specifically mention Brad from Mossberg Owners. She'll take care of you.

The shorter stock can make a world of difference in handling as well as maintianing factory handling characteristics as I mentioned, which is a great big + in my book.

There are a few different light mounting options too! My favorite is CDM Gear.
CDM GEAR

I know factually he makes a mount with a spacer for a 20 ga. You will likely have to email him though and he'll point you to a vendor with the equipment. Again, tell him I sent you.

In conjunction with the mount, I'm finding that the Coast light are pretty sweet, though the Streamlight Polytac is a real good option to and made in the USA. Ideally on the light, you want it mouted far enough forward to not cast a buch of shadow from the barrel, but it has to be close enough to be actuated. You have to find the balance there. A good light with a tailcap switch that you can barely push forward to turn on is my preference. So you could look for a light with whats called "momentary on". To make it more accessible, you can also get a tail cap with a wire for a remote pressure switch. It works the same as momentary on.

Regarding how you shoot, I strongly advocate seating the stock into the "pocket" formed over your pectoral when you raise your arm like your hand is on the trigger. Tuck your elbow down to your side, and pull back on the stock while pushing forward on the forend. That said, practice and PRACTICE! What ever style you shoot, practice it to become consistently accurate. There is a style of shooting advocated by Masaad Ayoob where you tuck the butt end of the stock to your arm pit essentially and look over the barrel. A weapons light can help make this style effective.

Ammunition. This part gets touchy too sometimes.

00 buck is my prefered load. At close ranges, HD ranges, nearly any make of ammo will yeild satisfactory results delivering the payload on target. Its hard to go wrong with factory ammo purchased from WalMart, like Winchester Super X. There are of course other more expensive and better made loads, some designed for Home Defense/Self Defense. Some are gimmicky and charge a premium for the marketing alone. The big thing here; PRACTICE AND PRACTICE!!! Pattern your ammo, take the time to see what your chosen load looks like on paper at given ranges, the distances you would have to be firing from. Watch for stray pellets, pellets that seperate from the rest of the pattern, Youre accountable for those too. A pattern of just a few inches x a few inches is entirely acceptable as long as you can put it where you want consistently. You'll likely find that within several yards, most loads are going to make a singular hole.

If you have to push the range out beyond what you will find in your home, you'll want to experiment with a few different loads to find something that is more precise. Slugs may be an option.

Now, for what kind of gear or equipment you need on your gun... for HD/SD, the best policy is to keep it simple. A KISS philosophy. (keep it simple stupid) The more you add to it, the more that can go wrong. Do you want to turn on lasers and lights? Maybe you do I dunno. A simple sight, like a fiber optic or tritium bead, or even a standard bead works fine. Your call, but the simpler to implement, the better. Adrenaline can mess you up and make you dumb. Try wing shooting. The first time a bird flushes in front of you'll forget everything you practiced for. Maybe... maybe not, either way, practice till its muscle memory and second nature.

Did I forget anything?

Rossignol, out.
 
This is what I like to use. So far no problems. With this mount you can put a light that’s picatinny compliant at 3,4:30,6,7:30 and 9 o’clock. Don’t mount it at the “scope” spot because it will just get in the way when you shoot, if you shoot proper.
http://www.amazon.com/LaserLyte-ADPTRIR ... B002LEZHFQ

Since you want a laser also check into this. You can move it to any other weapon with a pic rail and it comes with a bunch of different key to fit various handguns as it is designed as a handgun light
http://www.flashlightdistributor.com/St ... ight=69120

I know you didn’t ask for it but here is my opinion. I urge you to shoulder your weapon and aim to fire when needed, this will save you money because you won’t need a laser with a good light. Then you could just get one of these. I have the TLR1s, strobe no laser, and wouldn’t trade it for anything.
http://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-55709 ... B0037CJCMK

It takes up very little room and is in easy reach of your support hand. Teach your wife to shoulder and fire because if the time ever comes , she wont even be thinking of recoil, that’s something you only notice when you practice or shoot for fun, plinking
IMG_0605.jpg

IMG_0604.jpg


The other side has a gg&g sling thing
IMG_0039.jpg


EDIT: the last pic shows the mount integrated with the heatshield. I have since found that this only works reliably with the Mossberg heatshield…..the ATI heatshield is…..well the clamp on the ATI is cheesy and deforms under the pressure required to keep it from moving under recoil. They both work fine independent from each other.
 
Thanks for all the links and great information everyone. I will certainly give that person a call and get more info on their products.

Just from the photos I might be leaning toward a forend with the mounts on it that ripjack shared. My thinking is that the mount on the magazine would be to far away, but if I replace the stock, this would change the length.. Uggh.. I wish there was a store locally so I could handle the products and see whats comfortable.

Adrenaline can mess you up and make you dumb.
Click to expand...

For sure, when I realized I needed my gun and it was in the other room, I did some really stupid things in those 10 seconds.

One more question, from the replies it appears most of you dont feel a laser is needed. Why is that?
 
Those 10 seconds last forever dont they!

To me, the laser is one more thing to turn on.

Additionally, its one more thing that may not work, or one more thing to fumble.

A laser on a shotgun, from those I have seen, arent laser sights, something that is zeroed and on target, it just kinda points, but not point of aim/point of impact (POA/POI) so its a gadget that doesnt necessarily add to the dynamics of the shotgun.

If youre still interested, Dan did post an awesome setup in the product review section and he could tell you more about it. I cant even think of whats its called just right now.
 
Dwally, it sounds like you learned too late things that you thought you knew, were wrong. Too many people take for granted that if they can shoot a gun in the daylight when they're used to shooting that they can do it in the dark as well, and that's just simply not the way it is.

I would guess that the majority of people who own a gun have never shot it in the dark. And that's very unfortunate.

I bet it was hard for you to aim, and you couldn't make out what you were aiming at could you?

Those are the biggest complaints I have heard from people when they first try it.

I am very glad that you and your family are safe.

A weapon mounted flash light is mandantory if you're going to use it at night.

And historically speaking, most encounters are going to be at night anyway. Please remember to not shoot at what you can't identify, and as it sounds like you found out the hard way, you can't hit what you cant' see.

I have my flash light set up so my thumb pushes on it when I want to activate it, and if I want it to stay on, all I have to do is turn the rear cap.

Although I do like clicky switches a lot too, I prefer temporary on/off because in a situation like that, I don't want to leave it on all the time giving away my position and heading.

I think Oli's light has a strobe feature and that's decent for disorientating peoples eyes in the dark. More on the other end, but strobes always messed with my perception and thus why I personally don't use them.

My experience is that although you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on a weapon light, that is not one place you want to skimp on either. Most cheap flash lights are not going to have the brightness (lumens) or as well focused beam as the more expensive ones.

The least quality that I recommend is the Surefire G2, which are about $40 or so for just the flashlight itself, but they take CR123 batteries, which aren't very common in my area.

Mostly I recommend you find a light with 60 lumens or more (more is brighter), and a decent battery life. Glass (pyrex) lens is better than a plastic lens too. If you can find an acceptable one that takes common batteries and good life, at an acceptable price, that's what I feel you should look into.

I dont' really like lasers too much either. Especially if it's smoky or foggy or dusty environment, you may as well be wearing a lighthouse on your head because the beam can be traced back to you.

And has already been pointed out, do not necessarily shoot point of aim, which is another negative for them. Even if you have it zero'd at a particular distance, if you're shooting at a different distance, the laser won't be point of impact anymore.
 
dwally said:
1 - I KNOW I want to add a flashlight and laser pointer.

2 - I'm considering changing the stock from the factory one. Even with the short barrel, when I had to go outside, the gun seemed a little too long for my liking while going through the door. That being said, any stock I get MUST at the very least have the same recoil as the factory stock. Again, my wife needs to be able to handle the weapon, and right now she prefers to shoot from the hip because the recoil is borderline to much. Yes, even the 20 GA. Specific recommendations would really be appreciated or even advice on how to go through the door. (Its a little narrow)

3 - While I am at it I could add a device to hold extra ammo and maybe a foreend that improves the grip.
Click to expand...

First issue.
You didn't have to go outside.
Unless you have no Police force to call and your house is on fire...you stay in one place.
You have the advantage that way.

Add the smallest amount of gadgets and weight to your gun.
A simple Side Saddle or Buttpack maybe.
The Speedfeed Stocks are cool...hold 4 rounds.
I clamped a Laserlyte TriRail onto the Mag Tube just in front of the Forend.
Then put an NCStar LED Flashlight hanging underneath to the Left Side.
Cheap and easy. If it fails you can still shoot....

Consider getting a Tactics Video that covers different Ready positions if you really want to work on this stuff.
I remember seeing some on YouTube that covered a lot of basics.
"Indoor Low Ready" is one position you need to know about.
 
Since I don't have experience with using a laser, I don't use one, lol. To me being able to use a flashlight to "light up" up my target is perfect for a HD situation. As far as LOP is concerned I noticed that with the factory Speed Feed stock, it was just to long. I took a hack saw to it and reduced it by one inch. I did lose one round in each holder but I don't use them any way normally. When I went to my first match, I had a more experienced shooter give me some tips. While he handled my 590 he remarked how well it felt. I've noticed when presenting the shotgun it is now easier with the shorter LOP.

Situational awareness, or SA, is very very important. It can be the difference between shooting a friendly or a Tango shooting you. Now this is one of the hardest things to learn. As soon as the SHTF, you get tunnel vision and time slows down. You stop looking around you and only concentrate at what's in front of you or your immediate Tango.

While playing tournament paintball, I'd see new players do it all the time. An OPFR would suppress the the guy with sustained fire, while another OPFOR would literately run up and mark him out. You learned to use voice signals to keep aware of OPFOR's position and distance. Like you see on TV when they say "Clear" and "Hear noise in the other room". This is especially good if you and your wife are both armed. You would not believe how hard it is to talk and even breath when something goes down. You also learned to expand your SA beyond the tunnel your mind wants to put you in. Something to think about. I'd rather have good SA and a .22 than no SA and a shotgun!
 
Kungfunerd said:
One more thing....
00 in 20 Gauge seems too large.
How many pellets?
Click to expand...

How so? I'm not sure I follow how its too large.

How about Federal Premium VitalShok 3" #2 buck, 18 pellet, 1100 fps? or a 2 3/4" #3 buck, 20 pellet, 1175 fps?

Remington makes an Express Buckshot at 1220 fps, 2 3/4" 20 pellet #3 buck.

Nothing from Hornady.

Winchester, 2 3/4" 20 pellet #3 buck, and 1200 fps.

Not finding any 00 for the 20 ga. which is weird cuz my daughter shoots 00 and 000 buck in her .410 all the time...
 
.615 is the diameter of a 20 gauge and #00 size of pellet is .33 where #2 buckshot is .27.
12 gauge being .729, #00 pellets stack in the shell pretty well. .410 is a more popular size than a 20 gauge which may make a difference in what is available. I have a few round of #000 for my .410 where #000 is .36 in diameter.
 
Heres what I'm using currently.

I just have the Meprolight tritium bead, and a forward mounted light from Coast with a remote pressure switch on my forend which is for target ID and not navigation in the dark.

100_6296Small.jpg


My 590A1 is a 20" barrel and I also use a short LOP Hogue stock. It swings around easily enough and my daughter can handle it with no problem as well... well that, or the 1911. I keep 00 buck on hand, primarliy Federal FliteControl, but I have some magnum loads, and other stuff at disposal too and plenty to choose from in the way of slugs as well.
 
Damn some of you guys sure have some really tight looking combat shotguns!
 
NiteSite! Thanks!

For me, it comes down to simplicity and ease of use, not just for me, but for anyone in the house to pick up. More gadgets dont equal proficiency, nor are they a surrogate for practice.

So, a pump action anyone can cycle. A simple bead doesnt go out of style and a light that is activated with gentle pressure when your hand falls naturally over the forend.

Thats it. I know you like slugs, I have those too. But buckshot suits my needs best here. If I have to outside to handle a threat (predators) on the property, I have slugs close at hand.

Simple man, simple...
 
Some would say that my scattergun is "excessive" but I have put a lot of thought into the way it sits and is what I want and does exactly what I need.

KISS varies from person to person. I agree with keeping things as simple as possible, but I have a lot of expectations out of my shotgun that I require too.
 
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