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OH: SB 175, expands “stand your ground”

Discussion in 'Firearm Related' started by Scoop, Dec 20, 2020.

  1. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

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    Lawmakers have sent a bill to Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine that would expand individual's gun rights.

    An individual’s duty to retreat before using force - such as a gun - would be eliminated under a gun rights bill approved by the House and Senate and is now heading to DeWine's desk.

    The measure came as the House and Senate wrapped up business during the lame duck session before a new General Assembly takes office in January.

    The measure, included in Senate Bill 175, expands the so-called “stand your ground” right from an individual’s house and car to any place, “if that person is in a place in which the person lawfully has a right to be.”

    DeWine has said he wants any gun legislation to include his proposals for toughening background checks and boosting penalties for felons committing new crimes with guns.

    The governor has pushed these measures since the 2019 mass shooting in Dayton that killed nine and wounded more than two dozen.

    Link [click below]
    Ohio House passes 'stand your ground' measure, heads to DeWine's desk (wlwt.com)
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  2. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

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    Florida's SYG law is probably similar and what the anti-SYG turds don't understand is that it is not a "license to kill". Example SYG scenario: young lady going to her car at night after work, thug tries to carjack her and she shoots him dead. Many would call that justice served. :) Unfortunately, some would say he was the "victim" and fiction such as "but he was always such a good boy!" :rolleyes: The anti-SYG pinheads would have her attempt to escape or even become a hostage in her own car where further crimes could commence such as rape and murder. I'm Pro-Death to criminals and don't believe in Life in prison... ;)

    PS: The main "bad" issue with SYG is where it is used as a defense for murder when it shouldn't be. Example, guy got pushed down during an incident at a convenience store but the pusher had stopped "attacking". Guy on the ground pulled out his gun and shot the guy who pushed him. That is NOT SYG because the "attack" had stopped.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
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  3. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw .30-06 Supporter

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    You, me, & Ted Nugent. :thumbsup:
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  4. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    I don’t like that clause about being in a place where you had the lawful right to be.

    Here in California only essential workers have the right to be on the street between 10 and five.

    That is the new lock down order as I understand it.
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  5. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

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    Well said.

    Bobster> Florida's SYG law is probably similar

    I'd like to expand on some of this because the law does indeed vary by jurisdiction. Sometimes it is in subtle changes in the vocabulary used, even though the philosophy sounds similar.​

    Bobster> The main "bad" issue with SYG is where it is used as a defense for murder when it shouldn't be.

    Usually when a self-defense deadly shooting comes to the legal system the act of homicide is a fact. A person killed another person. The shooter now has the burden of proof [not the prosecution] to prove "justification." Depending on the jurisdiction several mandatory points of "justification" must be proved by the defendant [the shooter].

    The shooter must prove justification regarding:
    Innocence - Shooter did not provoke the fight. Or that shooter was not involved in an illegal drug deal gone bad.
    Imminence - This was a Right Now situation.
    Intent - This is the mind-reading part. Shooter must prove that perp indicated an intent to kill or harm.
    Avoidance - This is not necessary in some jurisdictions that have what is commonly referred to as Stand Your Ground.
    Proportionality - Sometime required in jurisdiction that required that too high of a level of force may not be used.
    Reasonableness - Shooter must articulate reasonable thought. In states with Castle Doctrine forcible entry will get you a pass. [maybe]​

    Bobster> Example, guy got pushed down during an incident at a convenience store but the pusher had stopped "attacking".

    In a case like that Justification is hard to prove. If the perp turns his back and retreats he has "regained his innocence" and the shooter's justification point of Imminence disappears.
    This has gotten outside of the subject of OH Stand Your Ground Legislation. If anybody is interested, we could take it up in a different thread.
    My main point is KNOW THE LAW where you are shooting. The law changes every time you cross a dotted line on a map.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
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  6. cmcdonald

    cmcdonald Forum Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    We can only wish we had laws on the books that even resembled castle doctrine or SYG laws. I'm glad they exist and are active because it just proves that they are worth looking at and even adopting in some form...even if some people don't think so. In order to even come close to being let off by Canadian courts in a self defence shooting you would likely need to be in your own home and practically being murdered yourself before you could reasonably expect an acquittal...the laws are very strongly written against use of excessive force in self defence. Even if you succeeded in convincing the court of your innocence that doesn't stop the prosecution for going after potential firearms storage violations, or anything else they can dream up etc...it's disgusting but it's happened before. However, recently (the last five years or so) we have had a number of very legit and very public trials of self defence / home invasion / burglary shootings and the homeowner walked...some new precedents have been set. I think in the past (before the 90's and the onset of the worst of our gun control laws) prosecutors weren't as horny to crucify gun owners as they seem to be now. Which isn't good and the acquittals don't mean the innocent party won't be put through hell in the meantime.

    I'm curious to find out how this one turns out. I'm fascinated with this part of the US system...partly because it is so absolutely foreign to us up here. If you're interested I'll dig up the Criminal Code of Canada law on self defence...you guys would be appalled I'm sure...LOL!
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  7. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    Canadians never escaped from the Commonwealth, having British rules defended with French logic.

    Maybe an honest lumberjack will rise up and conquer the nancies.
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  8. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

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    Another forum I belong to (yes, I'm a whore ;) ), has Australians that complain about the same conundrum. One member more in the "outback" caught a meth/crack addict in his workshop and had to wait a half hour before police arrived to "arrest" him. The police chastised him for tying up the perp but didn't charge him for it... :rolleyes: His neighbor got home invaded by a similar miscreant and was charged with assault for knocking the perp out with a pipe! :eek: I think of what I'd do if a thug came into my shop (or home) and I didn't have access to a firearm--there are so many other ways at my disposal to incapacitate an intruder such as wrenches and knifes and screwdrivers and even a hockey stick! :D Police station is 3 minutes away so I wouldn't have much time to use any of the impromptu "truth-extracting" devices also at my disposal... ;)

    The same forum has many like-minded Canadians as you are, Mac. There needs to be a movement for freedom there... :)

    The "example" I referenced above is an actual case a couple years ago. LINK Even had the "reverend" Al Shitstain there crowing about racism after police initially let the shooter go... :rolleyes:

    IF you have FarceBuk (you'll need an account to watch) and want to see a "good guy with gun" help police apprehend a car thief check out this VIDEO beginning at 1:50 or so. He is the guy with the yellow vest on following the action from his pickup truck. It doesn't appear he drew his pistol but his hand was on it... :)
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  9. Rodburner

    Rodburner .270 WIN

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    Crazy..
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  10. cmcdonald

    cmcdonald Forum Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    My wife is part French...I totally get what you mean! LOL! FYI...lumberjacks aren't popular up here anymore, you know the whole tree killers thing and all................................................
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  11. cmcdonald

    cmcdonald Forum Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    Apparently we're not big on freedom anymore. Virtue signalling and lattes are pretty popular though...so there's that................................
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  12. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    Oooooohh.....Yeah we got that here too.

    All in all, The anti-lumberjack prejudice would be worse here, except that our lumberjacks are usually Mexican and nowadays 90% just do ornamental tree work.

    I have seven growing trees, so they come out here every year to trim them up and cut all the wood.
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  13. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

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    I'm half Acadian. I remember my mom and her sisters talking French and I knew they were talking about me when I'd hear "que Bobby" in the conversation... ;) All my cousins are hunters and I even had one who was a trapper for a couple seasons in upstate Maine.
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  14. Rodburner

    Rodburner .270 WIN

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    Lol, lumberjacks..
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  15. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    I wonder how many tree huggers have the balls to call a lumberjack a tree hugger in a derogatory manner. None I reckon.
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  16. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    Back to the subject thread, we have castle doctrine in Oklahoma. I hope I never have to use it.
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  17. Rodburner

    Rodburner .270 WIN

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    We have a bunch of statutes regarding this. I have NO duty to retreat. I can use as much force as necessary to protect myself,my family and others, and if I feel threatened, deadly force is acceptable, but then the burden falls on me to prove I needed to use it. If I’m home and they use a crowbar to open my door(s), well, there you go. I never liked that crowbar anyway..lol
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  18. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    I’m not sure why you were laughing.

    Remember that Abe Lincoln got his start swinging an axe.

    Why shouldn’t Canada have that too?
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  19. Rodburner

    Rodburner .270 WIN

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    You said you had Mexican lumberjacks trimming your trees and that just put a picture in my head. I’ve always equated lumberjacks with Canada, even more so than here in Washington. Happy new year Cad. Hope that oral surgery is on the mend..
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