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Question Of The Month. (December 2017)

Discussion in 'Question of the Month' started by carbinemike, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. carbinemike

    carbinemike Forum Moderator Staff Member Forum Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    5,325
    Howdy,
    This is a monthly series of questions topic for everyone to join in on the discussion. Some of the later questions may have a poll, and some will not. Don't be shy now, go ahead and post an answer and vote in the polls.

    What changes, if any, should be made to the NICS background check system?
    ripjack13 likes this.
  2. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

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    3,316
    Nothing.

    Government should be following the rules and discipline employees for gross negligence.

    Some of the major mass shootings or terror attacks were from failings of government.
    LTB45, DarkPassenger308 and ripjack13 like this.
  3. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw 20g Supporter

    Messages:
    883
    DarkPassenger308 and ripjack13 like this.
  4. DarkPassenger308

    DarkPassenger308 .223 Supporter

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    198
    I may be out of the majority here, but I don’t think it’s done much (measurable) good, so I think it should be repealed.

    Felons gonna felon. NICS hasn’t stopped them. And even when it has, the ratio of people getting charged with lying on the form is so close to zero that it’s almost immeasurable. It’s penalty free to try before you buy. And if rejected, they can acquire elsewhere. Always have, always will.

    If a law is ineffective AND unenforced, why keep it?

    Oh, that’s right...silly me. It comes in handy for tracking me, personally, because I tell the truth on my applications. Oh, and paperwork for NFA is retained forever, making it a defacto registration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    LTB45, Rico, MikeD and 2 others like this.
  5. Scoop

    Scoop .308

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    1,226
    DP308 is apparently a mindreader. As soon as I saw the question I formulated an answer that was what DarkPass had already written. His response was much more eloquent than mine, so I'll just say DITTO.

    Registration = confiscation
    LTB45, carbinemike, MikeD and 2 others like this.
  6. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    5,533
    I don't know what we should do to fix it, but I found this so telling:

    " . . . submitting oneself to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Back-ground Check System (NICS) is a fast and simple process that does not significantly burden lawful firearms transferees."

    Well I think the founding fathers would have disagreed. The burden is not only significant, but unendurable, that the state should automatically keep track of Firearms owners as if they were all potential enemies of the people.

    But out of an over abundance of caution (or fear) our government is going for this no-stone-left-unturned policy; & following through to the logical conclusion, it will vilify Americans by simply making us into paper criminals.

    If you're Hillary Clinton they need to show clear intent of treason before they can prosecute you for a crime that everyone sees you have committed.

    If you are Joe Nobody, then you can expect to be prosecuted for crimes everyone knows you have not committed, if it's convenient for people like Hillary Clinton.

    Welcome to the world of the Gold n Rules.

    DarkPassenger308 and ripjack13 like this.
  7. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    11,029
    Having a CPL in MI exempts me from the check unless I buy from some of the big box stores that have their own policy despite the ATF opinion, and I rarely buy from them.

    Handguns still have to be registerred locally after the sale.

    Yes some there are people that should not have guns that are successfully denied via this process but it only works for people who actualy attempt to buy their guns legally. How many guns used in crimes were acquired legally buy the perpetrator of the crime?

    It does nothing to prevent a criminal from acquiring a gun via other means or from stopping a legal purchaser who decides to go off on the nut after buying their gun. There is no legislation that can prevent that but have numerous laws to deal with the aftermath.

    I dont see it going away, if anything there will be stronger pushes to require it for private sales as well.

    We keep creating more rules and laws to correct the rules and laws we have that dont work because we dont enforce them and the people they are meant to stop don't follow them. That sounds a lot like the definition of insanity to me.

    I am of the same opinion as the posters above, any type of registration will eventually lead to restriction and eventually confiscation.
  8. Scoop

    Scoop .308

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    1,226
    "Registered locally" -
    Who keep those registration records in your state?
    Who has access to them?
    What do you do when you sell a "registered gun?"
    Has anybody checked guns for proper registration except as an aftermath criminal investigation?
    What does your sheriff plan to do when some "Pelosi-Schumer Confiscation Bill" gets passed in 2019?

    Those are not questions just for MikeD. Those are questions each of us must ask ourselves.
    There is a great battle in the future on this, believe me. WE are not gaining solid footholds in my opinion.
    The minimum "off paper" item for any person is one.
    I shall not surrender. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ [I'm really old. Decide for yourself the proper time to take the pledge.]

    Registration = Confiscation
  9. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    11,029
    Rignt now, based on where I live a copy of the RI-060, pistol sales record, goes to the sheriff, the seller and the purchaser. It is up to the purchaser to submit their registry copy to the appropriate city/county office within 10 days of the purchase.

    It is up to the buyer to register it. If I sell a gun and they do not register it, it remains in my name. I ALWAYS keep the seller copy of the form when I sell a handgun. That is the only proof I have that it is no longer in my possession.

    An RI-010, permit to purchase, is provided at the appropriate county office when one applies for a permit to purchase. Without A CPL you must have one issued from the office and it expires 30 days from issue

    For CPL holders use the RI-060 that we just print the forms off the internet for private sales or we if the purchase was made through a dealer they typically provide then.

    The form must be filled in triplicate and distributed as I stated above for a legal sale.

    As part of the CPL process my prints are submitted to the State Police and with our new expanded check, the Feds, which is why we can bypas the NICS check.

    I do no know off hand where the registry form ends up or who has access. Once assimilated into the machine I assume it can be anywhere and viewable by anyone. My offhand guess would be a state database, wbich probably is accessable from some federal one

    On long guns there is only the FFl transfer form and background check for non CPL holders. For private sale there is no requirement for paperwork.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  10. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    11,029
    carbinemike likes this.
  11. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    5,533
    It happened to a friend of a friend here. He inherited a gun, they told him he had to register it, when he did they did a background check, he failed and they took all his guns.

    The item on his record was a misdemeanor charge from the mid-70s, and this old guy haden't bought any new guns in all that time, and had never registered anything.
  12. meanstreak

    meanstreak 20g

    Messages:
    800
    Government corruption is rampant, illegal immigration is rampant, violence of all kind all around us, and yet the government wants to take away our means of defending ourself.
    There is something very wrong in this picture.

    An armed society is made up of citizens. An unarmed society becomes subjects.

    The current system is restrictive enough, and yet folks slip through the cracks. More restrictive laws won't change that.
  13. Rico

    Rico 20g Supporter

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    524
    "Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
  14. OhioArcher

    OhioArcher Where's da fishes? Forum Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    3,807
    --------------------------------------
    Things are pretty easy here in OH. Go to the FFL, fill out a form (or computer as at BPS), wait a few minutes for a phone call, buy the firearm, go home. No additional registration required. Not sure how any changes in the current NICS will make a difference. Staff shortages, improper/incomplete/nonexistent reporting will make any changes moot. Like Caddman said in another thread, garbage in/garbage out. It is never going to go away and any new layer of rules will only make things worse not better or more effective. I do believe that if the NICS doesn't stop a transaction and latter determines the firearm should not have been purchased then they are financially responsible to reimburse the buyer if the weapon is taken. This bullshit about the government taking what they want without regard to repayment needs to end. Immediately. Call it a "stupid tax" for the NICS and ATF. But I digress...
  15. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    5,533
    Thank God that President Trump understands that crap about too many rules creating chaos, and has been struggling to delete regulations from the manual of organizations like the EPA and the BLM.

    Nobody has ever done this and I am hoping that it will spill over into the BATF as he promised.
  16. meanstreak

    meanstreak 20g

    Messages:
    800
    OhioArcher, that sounds like what it is like here in Oklahoma as well. The whole process takes maybe a half hour. The hardest part for me is filling out the application. Lord knows I don't want to make a mistake.
  17. Rico

    Rico 20g Supporter

    Messages:
    524
    Having a CCW in Georgia makes a gun purchase simple. They make a copy of your carry license and drivers license, and then you fill out form 4473 and you are out the door with your new toy.
  18. LTB45

    LTB45 .308 Supporter

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    1,609
    A few years back I gave a speech at a gun club where Eric Trump is a member.
    After my speech he came looking for me to discuss more gun issues.
    Believe me it is nice to know that someone who has the Presidents ear, UNDERSTANDS what all us legal gun owners have to go through with most of the BS gun laws we are forced to follow.
    CaddmannQ and MikeD like this.
  19. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

    Messages:
    3,316
    Long guns and stripped receivers are 4473 and out the door. No registration in nys unless NYC.

    Handguns require a permit and fingerprints and state approval for license. Takes 6 months to 2 years (mine took like 8 months) depending on county.

    After issued license it's a pita to buy and place on your license (back and forth to the license unit like 2 times per buy).

    All handguns are registered.

    Warning to free states. Never let it get to this.
    Scoop and MikeD like this.
  20. Scoop

    Scoop .308

    Messages:
    1,226
    I know it says "Scoop likes this" on WM's post above, but just make things clear:

    SCOOP HATES THIS CRAP!

    Registration = Confiscation
    DarkPassenger308 and MikeD like this.

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