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Question Of The Month. (February 2018)

Discussion in 'Question of the Month' started by carbinemike, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. carbinemike

    carbinemike Forum Moderator Staff Member Forum Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    5,370
    Howdy,
    This is a monthly series of questions topic for everyone to join in on the discussion. Some of the later questions may have a poll, and some will not. Don't be shy now, go ahead and post an answer and vote in the polls.

    Should people named in Protection From Abuse Orders (PFA) be required up give up their guns while it's in effect?
    ripjack13 likes this.
  2. Scoop

    Scoop .308

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    1,283
    > Should people named in Protection From Abuse Orders (PFA) be required up give up their guns while it's in effect?

    This question came to my mind about a dozen years ago when some story hit the press about seizing firearms from a man under a restraining order.

    I generally oppose "automatic" law tricks. I don't like the 3-strike law or mandatory sentences or forfeiture laws or "hate crime" laws.

    There are many things to be considered in these restraining order cases.

    Automatically seizing guns in every case reeks of overshooting the mark in my opinion.
    However, if the order applies to a party that has shown past misbehavior with guns, seizure may be appropriate.
    Those that have made specific threats of bodily harm or death..., seizure may be appropriate.
    People that are subject to an initial protection order should be warned that future specific bad behavior before the next protection order will result in seizure. Then they have an opportunity to avoid seizure.

    What bothers me most is that the filing of a protection order against (ex)spouses has been used specifically to get guns away from people who then have little opportunity to maintain their firearmss. Basically people can use bogus orders for such nefarious purpose. I hate that.

    Does that make sense?
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  3. meanstreak

    meanstreak .308 Supporter

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    Scoop it makes perfect sense. Too often the protection order is used by divorce attorneys to make the other person look bad and use it as leverage in court.
  4. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    I truly hate these draconian "automatic laws".

    No I don't think there should be automatic surrender of firearms.

    In my mind good cause shall be shown first, in each case.
  5. meanstreak

    meanstreak .308 Supporter

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    Try this hypothetical scenario.

    Man finds out wife is cheating with his best friend, brother, uncle, another woman, whatever.

    He hires a lawyer and files for divorce. Wife hires a lawyer.The wife asks him to leave the house and he refuses. Wife calls her lawyer and says she is afraid to be in the same house . She tells her lawyer she wants him out. Layer files a motion with the court saying the wife is afraid to have the husband in the home and files for a protection order.

    A judge signs the protective order and the sheriff serves said order and confiscates the mans firearms, which by the way are all registered and were legally purchased.

    We are only one election away from this being the norm.
    CaddmannQ likes this.
  6. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    Yes we are, thank you @meanstreak and this is all in line with the leftist idea to disintegrate the American family.

    How many dystopian stories have been written about wives turning their husbands, children that turn in their parents, and families that become enemies because of the pressures of the state.
    meanstreak likes this.
  7. meanstreak

    meanstreak .308 Supporter

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    We are living in the age Orwell wrote about in his book "1984".

    We need to be careful for the future is now.
  8. Rossignol

    Rossignol The Original Sheriff Staff Member Global Moderator Sponsor Forum Moderator

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    There really needs to be some sort of due process.
    Water Monkey likes this.
  9. meanstreak

    meanstreak .308 Supporter

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    The left is so blinded that when the president says the obvious it creates another firestorm from the media.They get into this he said/he meant mode and whip up a frenzy. Hell, their is a list of congressmen that identifies how much they spent on sexual payoffs that the news media refuses to dig into to.

    Lets see, we have rape and sexual assault, those are well defined. Then we have sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, unwanted advances ( is that flirting), and I suppose telling a joke . I even heard a woman saying a man had ogled her and she felt violated.
  10. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    Gee, I wonder how she's going to feel when, eventually, she really gets "violated?"
  11. meanstreak

    meanstreak .308 Supporter

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    Folks are getting way to sensitive for their own good if you ask me. I feel sorry for the construction workers that are going to get fired in the future for looking or whistling at pretty girls walking past. Hell, you can't even compliment someone these days. And we call this progress ?
  12. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    I see this going on all around me.

    Because of the fear of accusations, women are getting a lot less attention than they used to.

    Because of this they are fighting harder every day to look more attractive and garner more attention.

    It's a vicious circle.
  13. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    It is unfortunate, but many women, under the advise of their lawyers, do exactly that just to give their lawyer something to throw out in the divorce proceedings.

    Happens all the time, and far too frequently.

    At the same time, in my state, anyone (usually women) who file these emergency protective orders are allowed, encouraged, and pushed to the front of the line to get a conceal carry permit of their own.

    While I am an advocate of anyone (man, woman or child) in defending and protecting their self, it would seem as though many people are complaining in the wrong, are being rewarded for it at the same time.

    That whole thing is screwed up.

    It started out being a good thing, but now is a major avenue of abuse by and in the system.

    And when a woman is being spiteful, many of them will often clearly remember things that never happened just to cause you problems. Sadly, a form of defense has somehow been allowed by the court system to become weaponized.
  14. meanstreak

    meanstreak .308 Supporter

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    More abuse of a government system.
  15. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Forum Moderator Supporter

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    It's pretty easy to get an order of protection and it can be abused rather easily as well.

    I'd rather it excels the victim to get a ccw license until trial.
  16. Bobster

    Bobster .308 Supporter

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    There are too many "victims" in this world and not enough personal responsibility. This is a general statement. :rolleyes:

    I fear that chivalry may be dead or at least unappreciated. I'm always one to open a door for a woman and was taught to NEVER hit a woman as I've taught my son. The only time I will compliment a woman is if there is consensual romantic interest. Flirting could be considered "sexual assault" in this day and age! :eek:

    As a teacher and a coach, I've been to more "sexual assault prevention" classes and seminars than I can count. I "get" it. I have a hard time believing there is a "problem" needing solving here...

    My brother had a wackjob wife he was successful in getting "Baker-acted" (deemed unstable by authorities in FL). This enabled him to get her out of the house with a restraining order and for the healing to begin with the kids. Well, against EVERYBODY'S stern advice NOT to, he let her back in the house. BIG mistake! In one of her many rants and psychotic episodes, he grabbed her arm to try to restrain her, bruising it. Keep in mind you snap your fingers near her and she would bruise--it didn't take much! She then called the cops and made up a story of imaginary abuse and they took my brother away. Long story short, she got the apartment and the kids and he has to pay child support and alimony. He doesn't even get to see the kids, 2 boys in their tweens. Dare I say I would not feel sad if she had an "accident" and turned up face down in a gutter somewhere. :cool: Oh, did I mention my brother is not allowed to possess firearms because of the domestic dispute? :(
    meanstreak likes this.
  17. meanstreak

    meanstreak .308 Supporter

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    Bobster, that story sounds all too familiar. My son has been dealing with an ex for 6 years now. Similar scenario as what your brother has been going through. They have a 6 year old son, but fortunately he does get to spend a lot of time with him. He also spends a lot of time in court and a lot of money as she is always taking him to court about visitation, more child support, and anything else she can think of.

    She has been playing the victim card most of her life and knows how to use the system.
  18. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    11,998
    My oldest son is in the same boat.

    They share custody equally.

    They even popped him for support for every other week.

    Really? WTF?

    Naturally he has appealed it. Their original order was for no support and they each would take care of their own end of it. And which they have. But now his ex went out and bought a new car and somehow can't manage the bills without extra marital support from him.

    And not to mention she has moved 5 times in the last year.

    In fairness, she never has been really stable. That's nothing new.

    I thought it was screwed up when I was raising my own son. It's not gotten any better apparently.
  19. Scoop

    Scoop .308

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    1,283
    Here is a new law in effect Jan 1, 2018 in TN that is pertinent to our discussion:
    Tennessee Code Title 40. Criminal Procedure § 40-14-109
    (b) Before the court accepts the guilty plea of a defendant charged with a domestic violence offense, it shall inform the defendant that it is a federal offense for a person convicted of a domestic violence offense to possess or purchase a firearm and that from the moment of conviction for a domestic violence offense the defendant will never again be able to lawfully possess or buy a firearm of any kind.

    So it doesn't take much to get in a really bad position. I have not read where there is any way to restore your rights after conviction, but I'll keep looking.
  20. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    5,708
    I got divorced 30 years ago.
    I told my wife she was being a witch and if she didn't get reasonable in court, she would find herself raising two children without a dime and I would find myself on a tramp steamer to Hong Kong without a care in the world.

    She thought about it for 2 minutes and quickly changed her tone about the entire divorce. After screwing me around it was also her intention to drag me through the mud. I told her as long as she was going to do that there was not a reason for me to hang around anymore & try to work in a business where I wouldn't be able to find a job.

    She decided that alimony and child support could be reasonable in view of the fact that she might not get a dime if she pissed me off.

    I also told her that she could run and tell this all to the judge and then he'd lock me up in jail where I wouldn't have an engineer's income, and she still wouldn't get a dime.

    It's not easy to make women see reason but it can be done if you are properly motivated.

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