Question Of The Month. January 2014

[KeithTexas]

At this stage I have very little to further the substantial discussion.

Many thanks to malagamarksman for taking the time to carefully relate his real world experience.

There are too many laws as is. No one supports the ileagle use of guns. No further steps toward 'common sense' gun controls need to be taken and my votes and my words will be used to the fullest extent to repel attempts to impliment any new infringements AND to repeal current infringements on the rights of good citizens.

Amen to that mingaa.. Although anyone who has watched the show "Cops" understands that they are very tricky in the way they ask questions, ie. "you don't have any drugs or guns in the car do you?, or "you don't mind if I go ahead and check, do you?", etc. etc., I think the correct answer may include some language like:

With all due respect officer, I believe it may be illegal for you to even ask that question, even if you contend that it is in the process of 'you are just doing your job'.

"The Second Amendment to the US Constitution protects the right of individual Americans to keep and bear arms. State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from any infringement of this right. It appears to me that your question may be violating the 2nd amendment and possibly other laws. May I please have your name and badge number so I can check with my attorney regarding this right, and our possible legal action?"

"In addition officer, The Fourth Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. Such searches require a warrant, which is to be approved specifically by a judge, after it is shown to be supported by probable cause." It appears that your question may be violating the constitution. May I have your name and badge number and any search warrant you have - so I can confer with my attorney regarding this constitutional right and our possible legal action?"

 

[carbinemike]

He said the FBI system has no such capability

This is where the NSA data collection comes in. If you used a credit card for the gun, ammo or even a bayonet they know. If you google searched "best 1-4x scope for an AR15" they know. If you posted on here like I did when I picked up a Ruger SP-101, they know about it. Facebook...covered. Email to your buddy...covered. Watching Hickok45 on youtube...covered. Ordered a catalog from Bushmaster...covered. If you told your Dad via cell phone about the Buck that you got, they will know.

Stay vigilant KeithTexas and I'm glad you're with us!

 

[Stegle]

He said the FBI system has no such capability

stegle says:
The FFL dealer I'm working with here in OR told me that he can't do a background check on me until he has the gun in possession. He said that they need the serial # to be included in the information sent to the State police for the check.
My question about this process was, well that's no different than going in and registering your arms is it?
Our state lawmakers are also wanting to pass a law to run background checks on anyone using a weapon of any kind at a shooting range, rented or owned! I feel we must fight this tooth and nail to defend our forefathers wisdom in creating the constitution to protect us from tyranny in our government!
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carbinmike says:
This is where the NSA data collection comes in. If you used a credit card for the gun, ammo or even a bayonet they know. If you google searched "best 1-4x scope for an AR15" they know. If you posted on here like I did when I picked up a Ruger SP-101, they know about it. Facebook...covered. Email to your buddy...covered. Watching Hickok45 on youtube...covered. Ordered a catalog from Bushmaster...covered. If you told your Dad via cell phone about the Buck that you got, they will know.

Stay vigilant KeithTexas and I'm glad you're with us!

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stegle says:
I agree 100% with that! They gave the ability to find out whatever it is they want to, at any time.
They know with osama's approval ratings going south that they may be running out of time to make the new laws they are proposing. Yes, we must defeat them this November or all will be lost I'm afraid!

Oh and...that new gun I talked about awaiting its arrival...it's lost in shipment with no tracking!

God Bless This Land I Love!!!

Steve N.

 

[Malagamarksman]

At this stage I have very little to further the substantial discussion.

Many thanks to malagamarksman for taking the time to carefully relate his real world experience.

There are too many laws as is. No one supports the ileagle use of guns. No further steps toward 'common sense' gun controls need to be taken and my votes and my words will be used to the fullest extent to repel attempts to impliment any new infringements AND to repeal current infringements on the rights of good citizens.

My pleasure sir, thank YOU for sitting up and taking notice. I felt compelled to contribute to this discussion as this subject is a very sore one for me. Even after all these years have gone by my resentment of what Blair did to us (legitimate gun owners) has not diminished.

I have no doubt any Australians reading this will tell a similar story to mine.

When the do-gooders announce "Just a few sensible measures to enhance public safety" do not give them one inch.

As can be very clearly seen by the British example, their "sensible measures" do NOTHING to make the public safer, it is really about achieving their end game plan.

Make no mistake about it REGISTRATION has one end game purpose...........CONFISCATION !

 

[bws]

So I take it no "state of the union" watchers tonight?

Edit: Me neither...

 

[ripjack13]

Gotta watch...that way he doesn't blindside you with more bs than usual.

 

[OhioArcher]

So I take it no "state of the union" watchers tonight?

Edit: Me neither...

Gotta watch...that way he doesn't blindside you with more bs than usual.

Take some Peptobismol or other type to protect from an upset stomach after listening to his blah blah blah...

 

[KeithTexas]

I agree the NSA has meta-data regarding every phone call made in the last 20 years, every email, every text, every gun or other purchase from a store, etc. etc.

But just like they've recorded every cell phone conversation, they don't 'listen' to the totality of those conversations - it is just stored for now in some server farm in Utah or Virginia. However, they can just run their search engine(s) on "gun", or whatever other word to sort the data. And I don't doubt they can sort the information by name, address, etc.

I just tend to think that right now, it would be very difficult logistically for any 'law enforcement' agency to knock on your door, ask you to turn in your guns, or ask your permission to search your house, and barring that, to know with any certainty what you may possess. Of course, like they did in the Boston marathon "bombing" they may claim they have a right to since a state of emergency or martial law was declared in effect and "in the interest of the public safety." Boston was a perfect (many say false flag) test case to see how many [military-like] agencies could coordinate, and how a population would react to a martial law, house to house search situation.

 

[SHTFAR15]

An eagle in chains is just a pigeon...if the black SUV's show up on my property, they have a 150 yards ar so before they see me, so, well enough said. What part about shall not be infringed don't you understand!

 

[carbinemike]

it is just stored for now in some server farm in Utah or Virginia.

Are you sure? Who said that?

 

[KeithTexas]

Hello carbinemike,

No I am not sure. In fact I'm sure their technical capabilities would shock us.

My understanding from reading/internet, etc. is that the 'meta-data' has been collected and stored, and it can be retrieved and reviewed when 'necessary'. That's how they can blackmail every member of Congress, or leader of any country around the world, or target any citizen with real or falsified photoshopped/recordedshopped/spliced information.

If any media has obtained 'leaked' (Snowden etc.) info regarding the NSA's capability for example, I would absolutely NOT believe it - especially as regards NSA capabilities..

I believe that all "news" on all channels from virtually all sources - has been 'pre-approved for dissemination' by the powers that be. For misinformation, disinformation, distraction, fear-mongering, controlled 'opposition' etc. etc.

 

[carbinemike]

Glad to have you on board at MO Keith. I don't put anything past them. It's what we don't know that they do that scares me.

 

[oli700]

I don't put anything past them.

Exactly, and I'm with you. Fact is only they know what the truth is and all the rest of us can believe or not believe the things we hear and read. I know people that are too deep in theory to the point they believe everything, and they may be right but in reality it can eat at them and still it changes nothing. My philosophy is to not let it eat at me but still believe they are capable of anything and I cant prove , disprove or change it, all I can do is be as well prepared as I can, stand my ground, support other who will stand their ground and hope for the best.

 

[John A.]

Guys,

I spoke with the FFL guy

I raised this question with him, and was somewhat comforted by what he said.

I was under the impression that when I bought a gun either from a dealer here in Texas, or had it shipped to an FFL, then the information I provided to the dealer or FFL to run a background check on me provided information about the gun (and now me) to the FBI, BATF, NSA, TSA, CIA, or some such.

He said "absolutely not". When he runs the standard background check (through the FBI system I assume), that he provides no information regarding my purchase of a particular firearm. Yes, he is required to keep record of the transaction in his physical files (for 20 years), but some federal agency does not have information that would allow them to come to my door (during martial law or some other SHTF scenario), and say "where is the old school Mossberg 500A that you bought in January, 2014?"

He said the FBI system has no such capability, that it is basically background check only, and that it has no capability to track firearm sales to purchasers. The FBI/BATF/etc. COULD go get all of the files of all of the FFLs and look at/for guns+owners that way, but that scenario would be a logistical impossibility.

So... bottom line... I was relieved that no government system has record of any/all of the guns I may have purchased over the last 10 years. Not to mention the impossibility of tracking private sales between individuals, or those that have been handed down as gifts, etc.

So I'm trying to imagine a scenario where the 'law' comes to my door and has any knowledge of what firearms I possess. I suppose they could trump up some reason to search the house, or they could ask/demand "all firearms be turned in to your local authorities" but short of that they wouldn't be able to enforce any requirement to turn over the guns that anyone allegedly may have.

I'm sure states like New Yawk and Kaleefornya are much different. And we've seen how quickly and easily Boston Ma. residents "sheltered in place" and submitted to house to house searches, but, umm, don't think that's gonna happen anywhere but the northeast or way out west.

While you may have been comforted by what he said, please take the time to read this thoroughly. It is only 2 pages long so it shouldn't take long to read, and then get back and let me know how comforted that you are with the official documents concerning the subject:
https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/ ... 312-10.pdf