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Question Of The Month...(November 2016)

Discussion in 'Question of the Month' started by carbinemike, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    Howdy,
    This is a monthly series of questions topic for everyone to join in on the discussion. Some of the questions may have a poll, and some will not. Don't be shy now, go ahead and post an answer.

    Is the AR-15 market oversaturated yet and where is it going?
  2. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    5,870
    Not saturated here yet, but in California it's going in the crapper & won't be.
  3. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite "Philanthropist"

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    I dont feel any market gun related can be oversaurated. I will say it is overwhelming, trying to decide on one of many is difficult. The possibility of weathering a storm, with so many vendors is greater though. So many vendors, constantly trying to design something newer, and better keeps driving the market forward. Im sure we all can agree that we would rely on the old tried and true when we have to make a no turning back decision, but decades from now whats new and creative may very well have proven itself.
    LAZY EYED SNIPER likes this.
  4. ripjack13

    ripjack13 Resident Sawdust Maker Staff Member Administrator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    Kinda hard to be oversaturated here in CT where we're not even allowed to have em anymore....
    LTB45 likes this.
  5. OhioArcher

    OhioArcher Where's da fishes? Forum Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    Over saturated would be when there are dozens and dozens on the shelves not moving and prices are "Crazy Eddie" low. Where you get a free AR with a case of ammo.

    Seriously, though, there are so many brands now. Seems that everyone is making some type of AR (and they all look the same). As long as the demand is there and they are moving then I wouldn't say the market is over saturated.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  6. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    Depends on how you look at it.

    Certain parts are still sold out or sell out fast. Receivers, barrels, LPK's etc, it kind of goes in waves. We are definitely not over saturated with these parts.

    Even the 80% stuff seems to be hit or miss.

    When it comes to accessories, I am not sure if we are over saturated but there is an ever increasing amount of useless and low quality crap in the marketplace. By low quality stuff I am referring to clones and inferior airsoft crap they are misrepresenting and selling as AR parts. I'm not big on bling and tacti-cool stuff. I want basic parts that work.

    Places like CT, NY, CA, etc. have an entirely different problem, one that we may all soon be facing based on the results of next Tuesdays election. I expect the election results to either create another drought like we have never seen (probably more on the ammo side) or a drop in prices and increase in availability.
  7. Daryll

    Daryll .270 WIN Supporter

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    193
    You mean like this???

    http://www.thetacsac.com/products/the-tacsac

    :eek::eek::eek:
    Bobster likes this.
  8. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    Can you get any of the PC models like CA and NY?
  9. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw .30-06 Supporter

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    1,082
  10. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Here are my humble 2 cents, it's not "over-saturated", but it is fully saturated.

    The bring it home now prices, are below what distributor and dealer prices were a mere 6 years ago.

    Retail prices are almost exactly half what they were 10 years ago. And that's not even taking into consideration for inflation because it has been stagnant for so long.

    Small FFL's, like myself, have closed up shop because it's impossible to remain profitable and compete on a large scale against every FFL and distributor in the country. People go where they can get the lowest price. And the quality goes to hell and I would be willing to bet many of the largest conglomerates are importing parts in order to remain profitable, which hurts us (the U.S.) even more. They would probably never admit to it publically, but I'd be willing to put money on being right about it.

    The AR market cannot sustain further loss in revenue/profits without seeing manufacturers start scaling back or perhaps even close their doors especially if they don't have other product lines. Even some of the oldest AR manufacturers out there are struggling. Colt has filed for bankruptcy several times, a large number of AR manufacturers like DPMS and Bushmaster and others were purchased and consolidated by Cerberus. These are just a few examples.
    carbinemike, MikeD and ripjack13 like this.
  11. ripjack13

    ripjack13 Resident Sawdust Maker Staff Member Administrator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    I haven't checked.
  12. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    Be careful with this stuff.
    Just because certain things are supposed to be legal according to strict reading of the law, doesn't mean the DOJ will not choose to harass you anyway, just because it looks "potentally" illegal.
  13. Daryll

    Daryll .270 WIN Supporter

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    193
    We have this in the UK at the moment.... after the various shootings over the years, the only rifled semi-auto guns allowed are .22 rimfire.
    One of the county police forces has started confiscating Steyr air pistols as they have a semi auto mechanism..

    The firearm laws specifically say that air weapons are not covered by the laws as long as they're within the legal power limit, but the Police are still saying they're prohibited weapons...
    CaddmannQ likes this.
  14. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    I've spoken with multiple LEO's who take the approach that if they think it's illegal or a grey area they will cite/arrest the individual then let the courts sort it out, they are fhere to enforce the law as they understand it, not to interpret it. Problem is that there are so many laws on the books officers cannot posibly know the ins and outs of all of them. Even most lawyers only focus on a specific subset and master those. One thing that really needs to be reviewed and cleaned up in this country are the laws on the books. They rarely go away, they just stop being enforced when deemed no longer needed but can still trip you up. ...but that is another topic.

    In the big picture its also a convienient way to intimidate people as most will just comply with non-laws rather than go through the process and fight it in court.

    A good example of this is open carry. Despite MI being an open carry state with premption, some localities still try to enforce old carry laws on the books that are now superceded by state law. They know the local laws carry no weight in this matter but they do it to deter and intimidate people from OCing in their jurisdictions.
  15. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    5,870
    This business about excessive and confusing and obsolete laws, and about difficult to interpret laws, is a big problem in the nation.

    We need some kind of constitutional amendment that says that every law which is not written directly into the US Constitution has a Sunset date, and unless it's renewed by a vote of the appropriate legislative body it disappears from the books.

    I base this theory on the fact that we are creating new laws faster than people can read them. Consider the 100 State legislative bodies and the two Federal bodies, and the lobbyists, bureaucrats, secretaries, assistants and scriveners attached to them. There must be over 50,000 people in DC alone, another 500,000 across the states, right now, trying to create new laws.

    How many people are dedicated to removing obsolete laws?

    Zippo. Zero. Ziltch.

    How many people are tripped up by such laws, the non- uniformity of them as a body ,and most often of all by the sheer unnecessary volume of laws?

    I don't know but I just read that over 100 convicted felons were absolved in time, before their execution, by DNA evidence.

    So if it's that bad when it comes to Bloody Murder I must imagine that millions of people get picked up everyday (to an enormous cost in human time and effort) over unnecessary and absolute nonsense in the law.

    There's an old story of a contest where they put a man into a locked room. No phone no computer. No bathroom. Just a bucket.

    He was given some food, some water, and a pack of cigarettes.

    He was to win the prize if he could stay in that room 24 hours without breaking the law.

    When they open the door they immediately "arrested" him, because he had smoked the cigarettes without tearing the tax stamp first upon opening the package.

    When you tear the tax stamp it's like canceling a postage stamp so that it cannot be used again.

    GUILTY!
  16. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    Ok, I'll try to steer this back onto the road. I must have forgot what thread I was I in for a moment on my previous post. The legal discussion is good but perhaps a bit off topic for this QOTM.

    I continually get AR specific catalogs in the mail from Cabelas , Bass Pro, Brownells, etc as well as daily emails from almost every vender I have ordered from in the past (I dont mind these I have jumped on a few good deals on things).

    When I go to the local range it used to be full of bolt actions now its full of guys shooting AR's in every caliber and configuration.

    I see AR parts in expanding amounts and general sporting goods places where I would might have only found some shotgun and 10/22 stocks previously.

    I am starting to see more and more AR-10 parts hitting the market at prices much less than I saw a few years ago. Almost to the point where I may try to build one.

    Oddly I have yet to personally see another hunter using one. I see lots of pics on various sites and forums though. I was thinking of using one this year for the weekend I will get to hunt during our firearm season.

    I still see the AR market growing for some time.
  17. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

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    1,356
    I'll answer this from the standpoint of a AR non-owner. Back in the pre-AWB days I thought I'd buy one. I got a lot of advice from very knowledgeable shooters, smiths, armorers, etc. Too much advice in my opinion. With all the mfgr options and accessories and spec variations it became more complicated than reading an insurance policy. I watched videos, bought books, shot rifles [the fun part] and perused shop inventory.

    What did I finally buy? Nothing. Every choice had better choices according to somebody. Since I really didn't have a need I just bailed out of the market. If it had just been a choice of just Stone vs. Rock I might have made the jump.

    So in that respect the market was over-saturated. I am still AR-less.

    [​IMG]
    ripjack13 likes this.
  18. OhioArcher

    OhioArcher Where's da fishes? Forum Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    I would agree that the AR related parts market is out-of-control. Too many fly-by-night manufacturers throwing stuff out there just to make a buck. As soon as the market falters they will be the first to fold.

    The overall AR market could easily be oversaturated if everyone owning one decided to sell and recoup their money if the laws took a 180 and ARs all became illegal.
  19. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    Well, Savage is going to enter the AR market this year. To bad they ditched the Indian head logo. It would look way better on it than the new one.
    ripjack13 likes this.
  20. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator

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    I would've bought a savage receiver just to have the indian head logo.
    ripjack13 and carbinemike like this.

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