1. Check out the Hot Deals section of the Marketplace forum to order an official Mossbergowners.com hat.

Question Of The Month (September 2021)(Light and optic in home defense)

Discussion in 'Question of the Month' started by carbinemike, Sep 4, 2021.

  1. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    6,068
    Are you concerned about possible legal and ethical consequences if you used or don't use an optic or light in a home defense situation?

    This month's question is courtesy of @Ernst. If anyone else has ideas for the QOTM please don't hesitate to PM me.
    Thanks, carbinemike
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
    meanstreak likes this.
  2. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    15,983
    I believe that you should be able to identify a threat. That means, having a light.

    As for possible legal consequences, I don't think I've ever heard anyone being prosecuted for having a light, or not having a light. Though, there are some leftist prosecuting attorneys that would rather grasp at any straw they could in order to bring the case before the courts.

    Some of the things that have been heard in court was having certain engravings on a gun. Using some "scary gun" that the DA doesn't think you should be able to own. I've heard some people say they'd never use handloaded ammunition in a self defense situation.

    Myself, I'm not concerned about any of that. I'd shoot someone with a bazooka and then light them on fire and shoot them out of an artillery cannon before I'd just stand idly by and allow someone in my family be hurt by someone. That's simply just how I feel about it. As a father and a grandfather, it's my responsibility to protect my family, and I take that responsibility very seriously. Even Jesus knew there was a need for defending ourselves. That's why he told his disciples if they didn't have a sword, go sell something and get one.

    The way that I see it, if anyone does happen to make it past the 5 foot chain link fence, the security cameras, the dog, the locked doors, and does end up in the house anyway, it's not going to be by accident. It's going to take a lot of determination on their part to make it this far. So, they're not here to teach me the 2nd verse to kum-ba-ya.

    All of my guns are legally owned. And would be used for that purpose. Be it, a slingshot or integrally suppressed machinegun with hot hollowpoint handloads. Just whatever is handy during the moment. I don't care. But, if it costs me my life and freedoms, whatever. But, I will literally lay down my life to protect my family. Period. There is no question for me.

    FWIW, all of my HD weapons, have a light. If it's lit, it's hit.
    nitesite, carbinemike and meanstreak like this.
  3. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    9,443
    No problem in my county. If a homeowner kills an intruder, it is almost celebrated.
    TheRude1 and meanstreak like this.
  4. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    4,305
    John, I think your sentiment is shared by most if not all on the forum. To be honest I never gave the legality of lights, lasers, or optics a thought. So, to answer the question, no I am not concerned.
    CaddmannQ likes this.
  5. Daryll

    Daryll .270 WIN Supporter

    Messages:
    361
    "Some of the things that have been heard in court was having certain engravings on a gun."

    Sounds like here in the Uk.... you can own a knife/bayonet/machete with no problems (as long as you don't go out in the street with it !!), but if you write "Zombie killer" or some-such on the blade, thats a banned weapon..!!

    https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
    • zombie knives - a knife with a cutting edge, a serrated edge and images or words suggesting it is used for violence
    meanstreak likes this.
  6. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    15,983
    Are weed whackers legal there?
    meanstreak likes this.
  7. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    2,614
    What if I prefer to wait in the dark using night sights (tritium)? ;)
    meanstreak and John A. like this.
  8. Daryll

    Daryll .270 WIN Supporter

    Messages:
    361
    Yep... both the electric/gas powered ones and the long curved bladed ones..
    meanstreak likes this.
  9. nitesite

    nitesite Average Guy Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    6,135
    The use of one or both would not concern me. And neither would not using one. Unless it is shown that you had a light and did not activate it, and then didn't identify your perceived threat and some innocent got shot.

    Weapon lights are today so prevalent and in common use I don't think anyone would bat an eye.

    Lasers, while not as common, aren't common largely because they are so useless most of the time.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
    MikeD, CaddmannQ and John A. like this.
  10. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    6,068
    @John A. This is great..."I'd shoot someone with a bazooka and then light them on fire and shoot them out of an artillery cannon before I'd just stand idly by and allow someone in my family be hurt by someone."
    meanstreak and nitesite like this.
  11. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    15,983
    It's sincerely how I feel.
    meanstreak and carbinemike like this.
  12. Ernst

    Ernst .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    1,075
    IMO we all have an obligation of positive identification of the potential threat. The perceived threat could range from a child sleep walking in the middle of the night, to an intruder bear for those of us who live very rural, or to an actual bad guy(s). At 3am on a moonless night I'm not sure how you assure positive identification without using a light. Certainly some will turn on every light in the house but prudent use of a handheld or weapons mounted light maintains your advantage. The other concern is an armed spouse. I certainly advocate have a weapons trained spouse but you must assure positive identity of each other in a threat situation.

    Side note: I've always practiced and taught judicial use of a light. In certain cases a negedlent discharge of a light can be as deferential as a negedlent discharge of a weapon. Plus there is, again IMO, a growing tendency to over illuminate the situation. Many of the lights today have multi functions and aircraft landing light brightness. From an operational point of view and while trying to maintain your night vision capability using an adequate but simple low powered light is advantageous. I personally believe lasers have not redeeming value in home defense situation. They ID you! Especially, some of these new lights that give you a combined light and laser simultaneously.

    But, totally agree with John on the adequacy of the weapon! Yes, you can shoot a bear with a .22 but he'll still eat you when you run out of bullets!

    Regards my friends!
  13. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

    Messages:
    2,402
    Are you concerned about possible legal and ethical consequences if you used or don't use an optic or light in a home defense situation?

    No.
    meanstreak likes this.
  14. Rodburner

    Rodburner .270 WIN

    Messages:
    431
    Lol..my house is always lighted inside, but just in case…lol 32603FE4-AA7F-42DB-B3C4-F12221E02090.jpeg
    meanstreak and TheRude1 like this.
  15. Ernst

    Ernst .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    1,075
    Rodburner, while I like your sign I'd caution that the microsecond you turn on your laser you also illuminate yourself and you become a target.

    Try a drill using an unloaded and safe weapon and go against another person. See how long it takes them to say "bang" once you illuminate the laser. Drills I seen the opposition fires a shot at the laser source before you've acquired and picked your point of aim and pull the trigger.

    Just a thought for your consideration.

    Regards
    nitesite, Rodburner and meanstreak like this.
  16. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

    Messages:
    2,402
    Good advice, Ernst.

    Let my share my limited experience with laser aiming devices.

    I was sure I wanted to get a pistol w/ laser on it. In early 2000 I was in a group that did training, testing, evaluation for self-defense mostly with pistols, but there was some hand-to-hand and edged weapons thrown in also.

    Laser:

    I used a borrowed Glock w/ a red laser mounted on it.
    In daylight the laser was difficult to see when it was turned on. I had to be pretty close to target to pick it up fast.
    The best way to pick it up was to use a standard grip and stance to align the pistol and then "look around it" to find the end of the beam.
    By that time I could have used standard sights to fire a shot.
    If the laser is illuminating something other that the target is is very hard to find it against items in the background.
    When the target is wearing shirts of the wrong color you can't see the dot. Red and black are rough. Patterned shirts are problem.

    At night you are giving away your position. [See Ernst above.]
    Working in a laser equipped team was a laugh. In our night exercises we couldn't tell which one of the dots was from which gun. Makes it hard to aim to get a hit unless you figure out which one of four wiggly dots is yours. [I would guess professional training for military and LE addresses that.]

    Also I have a religious objection -- The Third Commandment says "Batteries and Guns Don't Mix!"

    For night work I'll stick with standard flashlight techniques.
    nitesite, Rodburner and meanstreak like this.
  17. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    4,305
    I have never had a laser on a firearm , I also have never considered the challenges associated with using one. Very enlightening thread for sure. Lots of things to think about and sort out. Better to figure these things out before one is actually confronted with a dire situation.
    nitesite and Rodburner like this.
  18. Rodburner

    Rodburner .270 WIN

    Messages:
    431
    Great points to ponder, thank you all. I live alone most of the time, so I take extra steps due to paranoia, lol. As mentioned, my house is never dark inside. The lamp comes on in the living room at dusk and stays on until I turn it off. This is primarily for me to move about the house at night. It’s not a big house, so the light penetrates every room. It also is visible to some degree from every window to the outside. So even the most ardent intruder will at least know their best work won’t be accomplished inside this house. I only have the shockwave for my defense outside an assortment of edged weapons here and there. I mounted the laser because of the primary firing position in my house. It requires an offhand, waist high, glasses in the other room, heat of the moment, point and pull scenario at its most likely. The laser has proven to me in testing with any load I stuff in the SW, that it goes where I want it. My head is the only exposed bit during the encounter and it’s not where the light is coming from, unlike my previous experience with hand gun or shoulder fired and aimed weapons. Of course this is all hypothetical. Given the other perimeter measures at my house and the lack of anything worthwhile inside, I sleep good.
  19. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    9,443
    :cheers:I’ll drink to that!

    By the way, I can see you out there right now, with a 5 gallon bucket trying to find enough parts to load into the cannon.

    After a bazooka shot, you might be lucky to scrape up enough for a 20mm round or two.
    carbinemike likes this.
  20. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    9,443
    I can’t see those dang lasers very well under good conditions, Unless it’s aimed at me!

    I don’t like guns that use batteries.
    :thanks:
    I would advise you to keep your spare glasses in the same place you keep your pistol, when it’s not on you.
    nitesite likes this.

Share This Page