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Question on bullpup guns

GunnyGene

Racist old man
BANNED
Was down at Mitch's place yesterday, and he was showing off some 5.8mm bullpups (Chinese QBZ-97) that he just got in. He said he could only sell them to LEO and Military (including retiree's).

2 questions: Are these things any good? He want's $900/ea.

and a general question about bullpups: Is his statement about legal sales true for other States besides MS?
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I always thought anyone could own one as long as it meets the 16 inch barrel and whatever overall length is these days.
I don't know anything about that weapon but if I had 900 for a bullpup I'd save a little more and buy a Steyr AUG....
I've always wanted a bullpup but one thing to remember about a bullpup is you cant chence out on them because economy models are finicky at best
 
Oli has it right.

As long as the OAL is 26 inches or more, and the barrel is 16 inches long and it isn't a machinegun, no special requirements are needed.

Although even if the size requirements aren't met and it were an SBR, you can always buy it on a form 4 if it was an SBR. And that goes for all civilian whether past Mil/LEO experience or not, though I sincerely don't think it is an SBR from the looks of it.

If it was a post 1986 machinegun, it would only be transferable directly to a police department (not officer or former officer) on an agency letterhead, or to the Federal Government, on a letterhead. Not to civilians. Regardless of past experience.

Either the dealer is blowing smoke, or is possible the importer may have some sort of weird/stupid agreement with the manufacturer, which I highly doubt because the dealer would be buying these to sell, not sit on a shelf until the right person came along.

I would be interested in hearing more about the LEO/MILITARY jargon he's spouting. He's full of it. At least where federal laws are concerned.
 
^^ I'll go back tomorrow and get some more info. He was talking to another customer about it yesterday, so I just overheard what I relayed here. It may be a length thing or maybe just the State, or even store policy. Not even sure about the make/model, but the 5.8mm made me think Chinese. Googling it said the 5.8x42 was used in the QBZ-95. Which also makes me question ammo availability, unless it will handle .223 cartridge.
 
Never heard of bullpups being illegal just for being a bullpup.

My Ps90 is good to go here in TN...



One thing I can tell you about niche caliber ammo lately is that 5.7x28mm has made finding .22lr seem easy. A 50rd box used to be around $21 and now it's selling on-line for between $100-$200 a box. I've a had few boxes for a long while, but I haven't shot this one in over two years 'cause I can't replace the ammo yet...
 
LES is also correct.

I don't know of any state laws that prohibit bullpups by design even in the most restrictive states, nor restrict any other type of weapon to only active or retired personnel.

Matter of fact, Mossberg even sold a bullpup 500 for a while, even though it was ugly as sin and not a very popular model and several aftermarket stock makers even have various bullpup stocks from everything from hipoint carbines to old SKS bullpup stocks, etc.

It may be their store policy, but there certainly are not any federal laws written as such and I am sure that Mississippi has no state laws like that either because like my state, are very gun friendly.

I can give you a link to the state and federal firearm law books at the atf website if you want to reference them for your specific state, but there is really nothing prohibiting the dealer from selling it to anyone that can own any other firearm so approach that salesmen on your guard.

Except maybe by contract with the maker/importer (very doubtful) or that he just doesn't want to sell it to them as store policy, but don't let them tell you it's the law because if he does, at that point, it's time to do an about face and never go back.

And if you want to be difficult with him, ask him to show you the law he's talking about in the books.
 
I already looked up the MS code on this. MS adheres to Fed regs. 16" barrel, etc., and does not permit county/city ordinances to override state law. The few exceptions in our law pertain to concealed carry in schools, etc., or private property owners rights and there are some well defined common sense limitations on discharging in close proximity to homes, property lines, etc. , but nothing in State law that would limit bullpups as he said.

Edit: More Googling. If these are the QBZ-95B carbine then it makes some sense. The -95 is 24" OAL, and 14.5"barrel according to what I could find. So that would invoke the Form 4 right? I'd like to read that form, got a link to it?

But the -95 was originally designed for selectable fire, so unless these were modified for semi-auto only they'd be classed as full auto. And I found some info that the -97 could be easily modified with common tools to enable full-auto, so that would likely be true of a semi-auto modified -95 also I would think.
 
Seems I got everything wrong. These are PS-90's. The thing about selling only to LEO/Military is because of a distributor program requirement. No form 4, etc. but he has to send in id to the distributor, who's based in CA.

He get's about 4 of them/year. Good price on them ($900) from what I can gather poking around on-line. Not in the budget right now tho.
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$900 is a smoking price for that gun.

Though as LES mentioned, feeding it is probably a chore.

I also sent you a PM.
 
Under a grand for a PS90 especially "these days" with the panic buying public is a fantastic price. Too bad its on a LEO/Mil discount program like the Blue Label Glocks etc......... I'm sure those 4 would move alot quicker at that price tag if available for us normal folk.

I'll be honest, I was scratching my head in amazement that these could have been a bonafide Chinese QBZ-95B. With a recent rare exception of Chinese made Nagant 53s and SKSs (small lot import batches) being allowed in anything else Chinese non shotgun is usually off limits. Thanks Bill. If there had been an exception and they were let in as fully automatics then the LEO/Mil only restriction would have been perfectly understandable as they could obtain them through a dept letterhead. Ammo availability logistics for a dept would be a nightmare though. At least LE wise. Suppose these had been imported and were available, I don't think too many LE depts would have been lined up to take advantage.
 
^^ As I mentioned in a PM to John, the more I think on this, the less inclined I am to spring for one. Really don't have a use for it except to burn money I don't have. Kinda like the Feds. :lol:

From what I've read about the caliber/PS90 , it's not much good for anything unless it's full auto. Too light for hunting or HD. Designed for offensive CQB and rear area troops. Ballistics aren't that much better than my .22mag.

The PS90 looks cool, but I'm more of a git 'er done guy. Why pump 30 rounds of .22 into a BG when one .41mag jhp or 12 gage Brenneke slug will do just fine. Call me lazy. :mrgreen:
 
Actually, the ammo as designed is really good.

But the commercial offerings are a lot less than the original design, being SS190 projectile, having a heavier weight, and a more conventional construction with an aluminium and steel core.
 
John A. said:
Actually, the ammo as designed is really good.

But the commercial offerings are a lot less than the original design, being SS190 projectile, having a heavier weight, and a more conventional construction with an aluminium and steel core.

For short range it has ok energy for small round - about 350 ftlbs @muzzle. But the trajectory looks like a mortar round - drops like a rock beyond 75yds, and I'd bet money wind moves it around a lot. I like flat trajectories and minimal windage deviation. This round fails on both.
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http://www.57center.com/21.html
 
Agreed.

FYI most threads on the 5.7 round on any gun forum mention almost exactly these same 7 things.

The FNH Five-seveN or PS90 is criticized for its high price.
Ft. Hood is mentioned.
"Cop Killer" is mentioned.
Someone counters that the LE/military round is AP but civilian ammo is not.
Complaints are raised about the limited availability of the ammo.
The 5.7's knock-down power is said to be lacking and it is compared unfavorably to .45ACP.
The round is compared favorably to .22Mag from a rifle and knock-down power is argued to be mythical.

Almost a given with any 5.7 thread. Lol.
Had to share that.
 
probably could reload some very nice rounds for it that would equal or surpass military ammo and cheaper but I bet loading those little bastards a tedious chore at best...
 
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