• Mossberg Owners is in the process of upgrading the software. Please bear with us while we transition to the new look and new upgraded software.

Rounds actually passing through the threat and beyond?

Tom396

Tom396

.30-06
Most folks seem to agree that if you hit what you are aiming for, with all your projectiles, are aren't going to have significant collateral damage. But is this actually true? If I hit the bad guy, dead center, with a full power slug, is enough of the round's energy going to be dissipated to prevent it from hurting somebody farther downrange? How about full power 00 buckshot? How about if it isn't dead center, but it definitely is a hit? Again, I'm not considering any projectiles that do not actually hit the threat... that's a different discussion. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
There's no way to be certain except on a probability basis, since it all depends on a wide variety of factors the instant the slug contacts clothing and makes it's way thru all the obstacles in the body. The human body is not a nice homogenous mass of gelatin, and the projectile can do some peculiar gymnastics inside it. The FBI report posted in another thread speaks to some of this as regards handgun rounds, which would also pertain to a 12 gage slug. It also depends on the particular design of the slug itself. Generally speaking a Foster style will not penetrate as deeply as a Brenneke, due to alloy and other differences, but I doubt either would have sufficient remaining energy to do serious harm to a second person after passing thru the first even if it retained it's initial trajectory.

00buck makes, at most, one relatively small wound channel per pellet which may, or may not, overlap to some degree resulting in less resistance to some pellets, which then may, or may not, exit with greatly reduced velocity in some unpredictable direction.

Bottom line is that once a projectile enters all bets are off.
 
I agree with gunny here. Far too many variables.

A gut shot or shot through soft tissue that doesn't hit bone, is going to keep on goin' for a while, and with a lot of energy.

Just to put it into perspective, I have shot through both sides of a car door and dug a nice trench into the earth berm behind it.

Flesh is softer than metal, glass and plastic. You do the math.
 
So, what I'm hearing seems to be that "just don't miss" really isn't good enough? Take care. Tom Worthington
 
Perhaps this link to Federal/ATKs Law Enforcement website will help you. Follow the links to see FBI Test Protocol tests of expansion, weight retention, penetration and other data for Shotgun Slugs and Shotgun Buckshot thru Wallboard, heavy clothing, bare gelatin, steel, auto glass, and plywood. Hint: there is also rifle and pistol data that is just about unimpeachable.

It's as good as actual FBI.gov studies only with great videos and photos and charts and graphs. Only thing missing is a laser pointer and dimmed room lights!!! Hahahaa

http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx

http://le.atk.com/resources/videos.aspx

Just remember that human bodies are non-homogenous so unlike gelatin testing there is bone and sinew and muscle, plus very watery organs like lungs and livers etc. that really screw with penetratiuon uniformity. And very important, a LOT of expanded bullets/slugs that have decellerated thru a human body are recoverd just underneath the very resilient and stretchy human skin which can and very often does prevent a projectile from leaving a body. Had it not been stretchy skin but labratory ballistic gelatin the test slug would have probably exited the gelatin block and worried the hand-wringers to no end about thru-and-thru shots and going thru three more people in the Wal-Mart parking lot. You'll see it all the time in big game hunting where the bullet is found during skinning lying just under the animal's tough skin.

Truth be told, a large camp of gunshot forensic "experts" believe that an exit wound in addition to an entrance wound helps drop blood pressure twice as fast and end a fight much quicker. In thirty years of casually studying these topics I have found but a handful of cases where a bullet exited a "bad guy" only to seriously injure or kill an innocent bystander in the line of fire.

If you look at the Federal Tru-Ball 12-ga 1-oz 1300-fps slug the penetration thru ballistic gel is only around 13-15 inches in many cases. I bet if that gel block was ten inches long with human torso skin at the far end, the slug would have stopped at 10" under the skin and not gone on to exit like the 13" penetration would lead you to believe.
 
Last edited:
Tom396 said:
So, what I'm hearing seems to be that "just don't miss" really isn't good enough? Take care. Tom Worthington
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean by "good enough". If you're expecting absolute 100% certainty that a projectile will never ever endanger anyone besides the intended target, you won't find it. When you pick up a gun, you must come to terms with the inherent risks of pulling the trigger, and of not pulling the trigger. If you can't do that, then perhaps you should find some other method of defense. :)
 
Last edited:
GunnyGene said:
Depends on what you mean by "good enough". If you're expecting absolute 100% certainty that a projectile will never ever endanger anyone besides the intended target, you won't find it. When you pick up a gun, you must come to terms with the inherent risks of pulling the trigger, and of not pulling the trigger. If you can't do that, then perhaps you should find some other method of defense. :)
Click to expand...

Actually, I've already come to terms with that, myself. I was thinking more about how some will suggest that the end all and be all of over penetration is to simply hit what you are aiming for. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
Tom396 said:
So, what I'm hearing seems to be that "just don't miss" really isn't good enough? Take care. Tom Worthington
Click to expand...


^
Rule #4

Know your target and what is beyond it.
 
I think the only thing worse than shooting in self defenseman over penetrating and hitting an innocent casualty is missing your target and hitting an innocent casualty. You should definitely consider your background in your ammo choice but that's got so many factors involved you need to make your own choice based off your situation.

I load 00 buck. I also had positions to shoot from and angles planned out to reduce risk ALARA. No promises, just do your best.
 
Every class I have taken has stressed knowing whats behind your target, something really difficult to do when you get tunnel vision.

Even in controlled range situations I've taken out more than one innocent piece of cardboard in the background that I never saw because I was so focused on the threat.....and that was in a controlled environment.
 
Here's a recent true story about nailing 6 bad guys with one bullet! ;):D


The marksman, a Lance Corporal in the Coldstream Guards, apparently hit a suicide bomber’s trigger switch from 930 yards, causing an explosion that killed him and five of his fellow terrorists.

“Lt Col Richard Slack, commanding officer of 9/12 Royal Lancers, said the unnamed sharpshooter prevented a major attack by the Taliban, as a second suicide vest packed with 20kg (44lbs) of explosives was found nearby,” the report states.

The impressive feat occurred in December, but the details only recently have been revealed. There were reportedly several hundred British and Afghan soldiers conducting an operation when they took on as many as 20 insurgents.

Lt. Col. Richard Slack outlined what exactly happened in an interview with The Telegraph:

“The guy was wearing a vest. He was identified by the sniper moving down a tree line and coming up over a ditch,” said Lt Col Slack. “He had a shawl on. It rose up and the sniper saw he had a machine gun.

“They were in contact and he was moving to a firing position. The sniper engaged him and the guy exploded. There was a pause on the radio and the sniper said, ‘I think I’ve just shot a suicide bomber’. The rest of them were killed in the blast.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...an-insurgents-from-930-yards-with-one-bullet/
Click to expand...
 
When the lead starts flying and your fight or flight adrenaline gets pumping all bets are off. Unless you are a Seasoned combat vet the last thing you are thinking about is going thru what you are shooting at. My home defense caliber of choice is a. 45 acp hydrashock and 12 GA as a back up weapon. I Take steps to reduce over penetration ahead of time by what I choose to load and most importantly, aim small miss small,center mass, shoot what you are aiming at. v/r Phipp13
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top