1. Check out the Hot Deals section of the Marketplace forum to view and order an official Mossbergowners.com hat.

Secret project

Discussion in 'The Workbench: Builds And Modifications' started by John A., Aug 29, 2019.

  1. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    While not really an update, I did get the reloading die set today.

    That was the #1 thing that I was waiting on to happen before I would buy into the 9x39 because I would never buy an import only round. While I have no problem buying commercial ammo, I would not want to paint myself into a corner with only being able to buy imported ammo. Due largely to political instability and a myriad of other reasons.

    So, when I found out that Redding was making a reloading die, I sucked it up and bought a set. There is hardly any load data available for it, but my buddy Todd who helped me work up my favorite blackout loads, said he'd see what he could come up with a quiet powder through quickload and help me out. So, I'll probably end up with something that works really well. I hope. At least that's the plan anyway.
    fellmann and tcecil88 like this.
  2. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    A lot has happened in the last 2 or 3 weeks.

    I have been working with a guy with a 3d printer helping design a functional 9x39 follower. I have tested and made a slight change and am waiting for a new one. But the one that I am currently using is working fine. Other than the 1st round you put in the mag rattling around a little and needing some of the gap removed or lessened.

    Was able to zero the scope and shoot the factory ammo for groups so I can get a baseline of what the gun should be capable of. (it actually shot really well with the factory ammo).

    I was able to order the powder and primer that I was wanting to try, so it should have me being able to make up some (hopefully) awesome handloads for this gun.

    If I can't make a quiet upper with that powder combination, I don't think it'll ever happen.

    After scouring through almost 3 dozen powder choices based on my parameters in quickload, I decided to go with the #2 fastest burning powder available on the commercial market. This should get the bullet up to speed quickly and burn out quickly at the same time, leaving a low sound and flash signature. True that it will have a higher peak chamber pressure to get the bullet up to the 1050'ish fps velocity that I'm going for, but if the computer program was right, also yielded the absolute lowest muzzle pressure as well.

    The factory wolf ammo is actually really pleasant sounding as it is. But, it's geared for a semiauto and having excess gas pressure left over to cycle a bolt. So, I'm confident that I can make it sound much better while still performing as it is supposed to without taking a hit to velocity or anything.

    In crunching some numbers, these loads should yield about 660 ft lbs, which is better than the venerable 357 magnum and 44 special S&W which we all know are proven whitetail performers in my hunting woods.

    My 194 gr Lehigh max expansion loads that I have earmarked in my 300 blackout is a hair less than 450 ft lbs. So, this should be an excellent performer on whitetails and even maybe some black bear at the average 20-50 yards that I normally get to hunt from.

    9x39 bolt action.JPG
    meanstreak and fellmann like this.
  3. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    I got the 3d printed followers that my buddy made for me. (Thanks Ken !!) They are a world of improvement over factory 7.62x39 followers. I'm looking forward to trying them along with the handloads next week.

    [​IMG]
    meanstreak and fellmann like this.
  4. fellmann

    fellmann Esoteric Supporter Premier Member

    Messages:
    481
    I think plastic followers in metal mags is the shit

    Maybe some more plastic covering the sides of the follower ? like a glock follower sort of, if you know what i mean.. could stabilize it ?
    meanstreak likes this.
  5. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    It looks odd out of the magazine, but fits the shape of the mag really well.
    meanstreak and fellmann like this.
  6. fellmann

    fellmann Esoteric Supporter Premier Member

    Messages:
    481
    Exciting waiting to see the end result :)
    meanstreak and John A. like this.
  7. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    Alright guys. I was able to test out the two powders which was intended to give me the lowest muzzle pressure and fastest/complete burn in the barrel.

    While obviously they do give a higher peak chamber pressure, also burns out quicker and much more quiet than the factory ammo since I am treating it like an old handgun round which doesn't have to build excess pressure to cycle a bolt.

    So, being a bolt action, is going to give me certain advantages than those using this as a semiauto are going to be able to get while achieving full function.

    In approaching the build in this manner and not having to generate excess gas pressure for it to work, I have less to deal with and all the advantages of not having action noise (other than cycling the bolt by hand and hammer noise) and also don't have to deal with ejection port noise and pop either, so I'm approaching it from an entirely different viewpoint than I normally would and designing it as a whole for a suppressed upper.

    Most of you guys have known me long enough to know that I have always been enamored with the Delisle carbine from ww2. I have came to accept the fact that I will never be able to have one, so I am building this project up as to be a more modernized and functional version of it. Sort of a purpose built "Dee-Lyle Gen 2" so to speak which would serve the same purpose and have more energy down range to boot.

    So now, I'm suddenly not as sad that I won't ever own a Delisle carbine. I just had to make a better mousetrap myself ;)

    My buddy George ran all the numbers through quickload and came up with some powders that showed a lot of promise. I went through about 3 dozen powders to narrow them down to the few that I wanted to make and try.

    Initially, I had told him that I was going to use 2.250" cartridge overall length because that is what would fit into the magazine, but after I loaded a dummy round and chambered it, was FAR too long to fit into the chamber.

    What occurred was extensive bullet setback to *2.213" actually* and a ring forming around the ogive and hard extraction to get it back out of the chamber. You can see the ring on the jacket in the photo below about .320" back from the tip of the bullet. Obviously, this would have been bad with a live round and would have no doubt caused an unsafe pressure spike, so this is why it is taking me much longer to develop everything. I prefer to take things slow and be cautious about it than to just go into this blindly. Or, come out blinded.

    [​IMG]

    So, in realizing my mistake, I seated the bullets deeper until they had a decent amount of jump before getting into the lands and throat which chamber and extract easily by hand now, I asked him to change the numbers to show a 2.185" COL and reconfigure the numbers accordingly.

    This made a much more narrow pressure window with both powders, so I'm starting low on both with a load which seems to overlap each other so I can determine which of the two powders that I like the best in terms of low sound levels and other performance before tweaking them for higher velocities and different seating depths depending on accuracy and sound and everything else.

    Another thing I have done was to pick a bullet that I wanted to use for testing. There is basically no load data for these in the US. So, I'm wildcatting and barnstorming and found projo's from several manufacturers that would work, but for starters, I chose to use the Speer 270 Gr HotCor soft point bullet. Mainly because it weighs near what the factory bullet weighs, it's a soft point which may help deform a little better while deer hunting and also shorter than the factory bullet which will give me more choices for which powder I use because it doesn't take up as much room in the case.

    [​IMG]

    Some modified soft points that I put on my lathe and made some deep hollow point cavities. Water bucket expansion/deformation testing coming to a theater near you soon.

    [​IMG]

    I'll let you judge for yourself how it sounds.

    carbinemike and meanstreak like this.
  8. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    Guess who's going to get to beta test a certain major brand of maximum expansion bullet before they are released?

    If you say: "that other guy" you'd be wrong.
    meanstreak, nitesite and fellmann like this.
  9. fellmann

    fellmann Esoteric Supporter Premier Member

    Messages:
    481
    Im a bit jelaous ;) Its not the other guy, its that guy
    meanstreak likes this.
  10. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    Looks like someone let the cat out of the bag yesterday about the max expansion bullets. This video was pretty long, but did show a BEAUTIFUL gel track of the expansion bullets in it which reminds me of a broadhead arrow once it expands. And also showed some long range testing (long range for me anyway) that looked really well. The Lehigh bullet section starts about 6:30 into the video



    And Military Arms channel has been testing some of the tula ammo at longer ranges too. This video was quite windy, but the bullet design had surprising low amount of wind deviation.

    The more that I am seeing of the 9x39, the more that I am liking it.

    meanstreak and fellmann like this.
  11. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    7,430
    Did you get velocities on those tests rounds you shot?

    The first one definitely sounded quieter and more high-pitched.
    meanstreak likes this.
  12. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    Yes sir, I did.

    Those were my first batch of reloads for that caliber so, I had them loaded on the low end just as a precaution.

    The avg velocity of the first 4 that I tested of the N310 was 865 fps. I have since bumped the charge up to 7.7 gr and averaged 960 fps with that and was much closer to the velocity I was looking for. I'm going to add about .2 more of a grain on the next loads and see where that is, but I doubt that I'll try to make it past the 1000 fps that I was hoping for. Still, if I can get within about 15 or 20 fps of it, I'll consider that a win and will use that load for my plinking and playing around loads.

    The titegroup was averaging 982 fps right out of the gate. I'll have no problems getting it all the way up to 1050 if I want to, though I generally stop about 1030 for my subsonic bullets unless I'm loading them for hunting or HD. Those get loaded pretty warm so I can get as much velocity as I can out of it without going super. I didn't test the titegroup the last time that I went out. I was concerned about how hot I could load the N310 so I was just concentrating on that load the other day.

    The factory wolf ammo was averaging about 1030 fps just for comparison.
    nitesite, CaddmannQ and meanstreak like this.
  13. fellmann

    fellmann Esoteric Supporter Premier Member

    Messages:
    481
    So the Russian 9x39 is avaiable in the US ? ( im sorry but i have slept through the entire thread :D ) i have read 7.62x39 for some reason.. i dont know how
    meanstreak likes this.
  14. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    Yes, although some things have been sneaking into the country for a while now.

    But until recently, there were no ammunition imports, and I refused to buy an import only round. While I have no problem buying imported ammo, I would never buy a gun that there was no reloading ammunition or domestic ammo for it. Too many political possibilities that could be shut down at the swipe of a pen.

    I heard about the 9x39 around 2011 timeframe, although from what I am learning about it, the Russians were using it before the USSR fell, and I did not know that.
    nitesite, meanstreak and fellmann like this.
  15. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    2,786
    Well, I did not even know 9X39 existed.
  16. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    2,786
    Well, I did not even know 9X39 existed.
  17. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter

    Messages:
    2,786
    Apparently I don't know how to post very well either.
    nitesite, fellmann and John A. like this.
  18. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,491
    I think we all have those days meany. I'm just glad to see you tonight.
    meanstreak and fellmann like this.
  19. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

    Messages:
    7,430
    John A. likes this.
  20. nitesite

    nitesite Sheepdog Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    5,614
    Loving this thread.

    John, you are a master designer.
    meanstreak and carbinemike like this.

Share This Page