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"Shot Placement"

Center mass 2 shots minimum.

I agree. Given that, what's the best thing to be shooting? Buckshot, right? If not buckshot (or slugs) from a shotgun, then what? It doesn't matter?

I mean, really. If you get two solid hits, center mass, it doesn't matter if it's with a .22lr, a .380 acp, a 9mm, a .357 mag, or a .454 casul? Really? I ask because I think it could make a very big difference, with two center mass hits on a highly motivated attacker. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
I agree. If somebody gets shot in the eye socket, with a .22LR, they are gonna stop attacking. However, I don't think for one minute, I am gonna be able to put that shot in my attacker's eye socket.

Warning! Explicit Description of "Hunting" follows! :eek:

True Story: In college, in a home we were sharing, my roommate and I would shoot beverage cans we had emptied :D off a picnic table in the back yard about 20' from the back porch we would shoot from. We used a BB 10-pump rifle: Shake, Load/Cock, Pump 3-times, Fire. I forget the brand, Crosman or Daisy with a cheap scope. We became quite adept at the process and could knock a can no problem, even in the porchlight.

One night, after a few "home-brew 'Brain-Death Ales'", :) we were shooting at cans on the picnic table. Suddenly, in the distance at the edge of the yard, I noticed the reflection of rabbit eyes from the porchlight. Impulsively (instinctively ;)), I pumped up to 10 and aimed at the reflection, about 100' away.

Squeezed the trigger and the reflection disappeared. Not sure if I hit anything so we went into the yard and there was the rabbit, dead where I shot it. I hit it in one eye, then probably into the brain, which then blew the other eye out of its socket. :eek: We buried the rabbit in the yard as neither of us knew how to skin and cook it. I still feel bad about not harvesting that rabbit... :(
 
I agree. Given that, what's the best thing to be shooting? Buckshot, right? If not buckshot (or slugs) from a shotgun, then what? It doesn't matter?

I mean, really. If you get two solid hits, center mass, it doesn't matter if it's with a .22lr, a .380 acp, a 9mm, a .357 mag, or a .454 casul? Really? I ask because I think it could make a very big difference, with two center mass hits on a highly motivated attacker. Take care. Tom Worthington


You need ammo that penetrates 12" - 18" to hit vital organs.

Something that does that consistently.

So ammo choice does matter.
 
That once (or twice, in my case) in a lifetime home intruder is not going to be 100' away (at least not in my little house) nor is he going to be presenting an eyeball reflection (in my opinion). Just my opinion. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
Tom, regardless of caliber; handgun or long gun... CENTER MASS-CENTER MASS-CENTER MASS.
Get a look at GunnyGene's post "Kill Zone" for a compelling reason of why center mass and shot placement.
 
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According to Jeff Cooper combat shooting with handgun or shotgun you shoot for the center of the target.... if the target takes cover you shoot for the center of the part of the target you can see
 
I'm leaning toward a 12ga coach gun rather than a pump gun. Automatics seem a bit touchy to me in surprise situations. I'm just suspicious.

Anyhow, Somebody's gonna have to be real close before I pull that trigger.

I won't survive a protracted gun battle with anyone who can see well.

I suspect that 2 shots would be the max I could get off, and not having to pump between them would be OK with me.
 
I live in the 'burbs BTW, so I won't be shooting random critters across the woodlot.

From 10 to 20 ft max in my house.
 
My pistol is my 1st line of defense at the house. Mainly because it fits in my pocket. Shotgun would be a fight too weapon. If I can't stop the threat with a few rounds from my pistol, then I'd grab the shotgun with slugs, or my AR. Honestly, I'd probably grab the AR since I am so used to it after being a Marine for 8 years. She's loaded up with 69gr BTHP Sierra Match Kings.
 
Now that I have a handgun again, it's always on me even in the house.

Center mass, as many time as is required and I'm willing to do a whole lot to the everywhere if it takes that.
 
I have been an avid handgun shooter for 30 years. Carried my Glock 19 24/7 for over 20 years. My nightstand, home defense gun has been my AR15 with and Eotech red dot, Surefire light, and all the extra eye candy. Just bought my first shotgun, the Mossberg 590A1 two weeks ago and already have over 350 rounds through it, a mixture of 00 Buck and 7.5 Birdshot. I love, love, love shooting this gun. Now I am torn between the shotgun and the AR for night time duty. I have to work with the shotgun some more to get comfortable with it. I added a Magpul SGA butt and forend grip and the +2 mag extension. My next purchase will be a light for it, either the Inforce WMLx or Streamlight TLR. I am hoping to find a tactical shotgun course in or near Florida sometime soon.
 
Center of mass has always been good advise, whatever it means. Up close, center of chest was probably better. The reasoning is that if you are a little off in any direction you will still hit something important. 2 to the chest then 1 to the head was an improvement.
However, in this day and age of druggies and fanatics, people who plan on dying this day, and who may be wearing armor, 3 to the head is the new standard. If you plan on doing it, train for it.
 
Center of mass has always been good advise, whatever it means. Up close, center of chest was probably better. The reasoning is that if you are a little off in any direction you will still hit something important. 2 to the chest then 1 to the head was an improvement.
However, in this day and age of druggies and fanatics, people who plan on dying this day, and who may be wearing armor, 3 to the head is the new standard. If you plan on doing it, train for it.

Sounds awesome in theory.

But from personal experience in shooting competitions, where head shots are required, I'll admit I've missed a few on stationary targets at 3-5 yards (And I'm a very good shot). And that's with "mild" stress of trying to complete the course in a fast yet accurate manner. Add in a mobile highly aggressive opponent who may be armed with an edge weapon or firearm themselves and the accuracy will most certainly drop.

I'll stick with the standard 2 to the chest box and assess for other areas of opportunity. I don't have the luxury of choosing the fight's time or place.

Obviously hitting the head stops the encounter basically immediately. But it's not a high percentage hit area either.

If you can put a target on a swinger, activate the swinger and hit all head shots consistently.... you're a magician, a wielder of black magic and I want to be your apprentice.
 
Half of all shootings are at under 10 feet and the size of a head is roughly the same as the size of the center of the chest. Yes, heads move around more, but an instant stop is much better than a 1-minute stop.
I am just suggesting that 80% of your SD/HD training should be at 10 feet and aiming at a small target, smaller than a paper plate and with 3 shots being the standard. Train close and break the nasty shooting range habit of evaluating each shot before taking the next.
Needless to say, one buckshot or rifle shot will probably stop the attacker, but at under 10 feet you do not have time to stop and evaluate anything. Get off your first 3 shots and then move quickly to one side or the other for followup.

2 to center chest 1 to the head isn't a horrible choice, but up close and personal it may cost you just enough time to be hit yourself.
 
Half of all shootings are at under 10 feet and the size of a head is roughly the same as the size of the center of the chest. Yes, heads move around more, but an instant stop is much better than a 1-minute stop.
I am just suggesting that 80% of your SD/HD training should be at 10 feet and aiming at a small target, smaller than a paper plate and with 3 shots being the standard. Train close and break the nasty shooting range habit of evaluating each shot before taking the next.
Needless to say, one buckshot or rifle shot will probably stop the attacker, but at under 10 feet you do not have time to stop and evaluate anything. Get off your first 3 shots and then move quickly to one side or the other for followup.

2 to center chest 1 to the head isn't a horrible choice, but up close and personal it may cost you just enough time to be hit yourself.

http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/analysis-of-five-years-of-armed-encounters-with-data-tables/

Based on an analysis of actual self defense shootings the average shots were 2 to stop the encounter. It doesn't specify shot placement but I'm sure most of these people weren't putting down thousands of rounds at the range each year either.

Yes it's important to train at short distances. I train a variety of shooting distances which includes drawing from concealment, timed shots, decision making shots, shooting on the move, shooting in the dark, one handed, etc.

But my first 2 shots are gonna be aimed in a high percentage hit area the chest box.
 
Shoot until the target changes shape or catches fire!

I took a class from Jim Higgenbotham in 2000. I think his article below addresses our subject here.

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2010/03/shoot-until-target-changes-shape-or.html

Excerpt:
Having studied in this field from a number of decades, I have run into plenty of cases where bullets did not do what folks would have assumed. And I have now collected enough of these that I think that rather than being anomalies, they are actually closer to the norm. Center mass hits in a gunfight do not in most cases end the fight. Erroneous assumptions can get you killed!
 
From what I have read the average handgun bullet has about a 50% chance of stopping somebody with a torso or head shot. That means statistically you need 2 good shots. Since some crooks and terrorists aren't statisticians, 3 good hits is the minimum just for starters.
Buckshot and .223 have a stopping rate of near 100% per hit, but still you should practice for multiple shots as long as he is standing and has the weapon. One of the many bad outcomes you don't want is that the the bad guy gets off one good shot just before he passes out or dies.
 
You're forgetting the common predatory criminal has overwhelmingly ceased criminal activity upon being shot based on the link I provided.

Criminals choose their victims based on perceived weakness and little to no combat required to achieve their goal.

Unless you are targeted for a gang execution you're more likely to fire off a few rounds and have the assailants flee or give up.

It's extremely rare you're gonna have an extended fire fight in common encounters.

Definitely train for it. Cry in the dojo laugh on the battle field.
 
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