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SHOTGUN: Holographic/Red Dot Sight Options

SuperRam4x4 said:
I got the Alum C-More Railway with a GGG QD on one of my 930's and a Burris FastFire 2 on my other 930. I like them both with the exception of the heavy weight of the C-More. I like the 6 MOA dot (you have a choice when ordering) on the C-More vs the 4 MOA dot on the Burris. But I gotta say $199 for a red dot that will hold up on a shotgun (1000 G forces) is hard to beat. I also put the Burris FF 2 on my Baretta PX4 45 SD and I love that I can put the bullet right on target at 25 yds.
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A friend of mine is considering one (Burris FF2)
Does it washout indoors while simulating a shot from a pitch black room into a well lighted room? How about the auto brightness while using a weapon light or just a plain pitch black room? I've experienced these issues with multiple redots ranging from $100 ones to $550 ones. I've also heard people experiencing these issues with the FF & she is basing her purchase on those factors. Any input would be appreciated.

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Well I wasn't sure if I actually wanted a reflex sight, and after today I'm still not sure that I do. Anyway, I picked this guy up off of Amazon for less than $40 shipped just to see if it would interest me. I didn't expect it to last any time at all, but I just got back from the range and after shooting 100+ rounds, she's still going. If anyone's interested in just trying out a reflex, I can recommend this one. AIM RT4-01.
522516_4395436687678_212923321_n.jpg
 
Yo.. check this red dot setup... Pretty slick if you ask me!

This dude is using a rear GRS from a Keltec su 16 & a custom height marbles front ramp sight co-witnessed with a Burris FF2 on special milled rail to sit that Burris nice & low.

I picked up a FF3 & tried to replicate but it was going to be too much work trying to get it to work with the protector & whatnot. The FF3 also has a higher rear tail that would make dimensions & cowitness harder to achieve. Considering the SU 16 rear doesn't have an elevation adjustment it would all have to line up perfect on the bore axis.

Might give it another shot on a future rig someday.

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Jimmy, I like the way you have equiped your Mossberg.
I have a question about the cheek riser.What model is it? I have seen one very similar from Accu Riser.
I have installed one cheek riser from this brand on the 12" LOP Hogue and it fits perfectly.
The Burris FF2 has a very low profile and the cheek riser seems to be about one inch high.I use the higher pad (1 1/8") with Eotech sight.
 
Speaking of cheek risers, I just mounted the ETA Rhino and Bobcat on the 930 Tactical. Tried the Rhino with a UTG Red/Green dot with the riser removed and it still sits about an inch too high. I can gain 3/8 with the Mossberg .375 shim set, but that should still leave me too high to get a good cheek weld. So now I'm looking for a good quality red dot that sits really low on the rail. I would like to limit the cost to 2 or 3 hundred. Any suggestions? A sturdy cheek riser on the stock Mossberg stock should also work - and maybe for a whole lot less money. More suggestions please?
 
jim4065 said:
Speaking of cheek risers, I just mounted the ETA Rhino and Bobcat on the 930 Tactical. Tried the Rhino with a UTG Red/Green dot with the riser removed and it still sits about an inch too high. I can gain 3/8 with the Mossberg .375 shim set, but that should still leave me too high to get a good cheek weld. So now I'm looking for a good quality red dot that sits really low on the rail. I would like to limit the cost to 2 or 3 hundred. Any suggestions? A sturdy cheek riser on the stock Mossberg stock should also work - and maybe for a whole lot less money. More suggestions please?
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Jim, not sure i understand, if your red dot is sitting to high for a cheek weld you wouldn't want to be putting shim sets underneath the red dot unless your talking about some sort of stock to receiver shim to achieve a different stock angle.

As far as a red dot, I've tried a few & still haven't found one that covers all the bases & variables. I did have a Bushnell trs25 i really liked but was faulted from the factory. It sat nice & low too, lower then the traditional fast fire styles. I also tried a trijicon rmr, my god that thing was rugged, but was the dual illumination model & i couldn't use a weapon light w/out it washing out. Im sure however the battery powered rmr's would be fine but they are sitting pretty @ over 6 hundos. Three hundred should get you something decent depending what your variables & needs are. Most of the fast fire style red dots are going to sit about the same height. You could always get a section of that rail milled & drilled to accept something & make it sit real low like the pic i posted above. If you don't want to do that route you can always slap a cheap cheek riser like you were mentioning. I think the one in the pic above would be the the one i would choose on a traditional stock as it has no straps & is pretty streamline.

So that we can better help you, what type of stock are you running, if it is OEM do you plan to change over to collapsible style in the future? These are going to be variables you'll need to consider if your your going the cheek riser route. Some cheek risers wont fit the collapsible styles & vice verses. Also, most of the collapsible styles will give you a higher weld, maybe you just say screw it & go all in w/a new stock.:mrgreen:

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The shim set is the stock Mossberg set which comes with the synthetic Mossberg 930 stock. It allows you to adjust the comb from 1/4" drop to 3/8" rise. I have no plans to go with any other stock - the standard Mossberg 930 synthetic suits me just fine (or at least as well as any synthetic suits me). This is strictly an HD shotgun, so the additional weight of the ETA parts or the red dot doesn't bother me. I'm hoping to find a red dot that sits as low to the rail as possible. The UTG 30mm that I just tried has a centerline which is about 1" above the center of the Rhino rail. Way too high for me.
 
jim4065 said:
The shim set is the stock Mossberg set which comes with the synthetic Mossberg 930 stock. It allows you to adjust the comb from 1/4" drop to 3/8" rise. I have no plans to go with any other stock - the standard Mossberg 930 synthetic suits me just fine (or at least as well as any synthetic suits me). This is strictly an HD shotgun, so the additional weight of the ETA parts or the red dot doesn't bother me. I'm hoping to find a red dot that sits as low to the rail as possible. The UTG 30mm that I just tried has a centerline which is about 1" above the center of the Rhino rail. Way too high for me.
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Is it that choate stock that comes on some?

I'd say, if you need as low as possible have the rail milled & use a Burris fast fire ll. I know sounds like a pain, but if you don't want to change out your stock to a different one & your not feeling a cheek riser, im not sure what else to suggest.The lll has a weird tail to it & makes you need a higher weld. Im not sure what your utg's specs are or what style it is but I know a aimpoint micro or its clones will sit the lowest. In other words the tube styles will most likely be the lowest if their base is intergrated into the housing, like the Bushnell trs-25.

I feel ya on this as I just went though it. I ended up returning the red dots & went with a GRS set up. Still might add a red dot someone in the near future. Just debating on whether or not to have the vang comp rail milled like pic above. Its just hard to bring myself to mill after what it cost.

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Thanks Jimmy! You got me off Top Dead Center. Since my only real problems with the riser were lack of confidence and reluctance to throw more cash in this bottomless pit, I've read a lot of opinions on Amazon and decided to buy a $40 riser rather than have the brand new Rhino milled. It's bad enough to have to move a set screw in the Bobcat when I have zero talent as a machinist and I haven't found a decent gunsmith in central Arkansas.
 
I don't know if this will help, or not.

I have a Bushnell TRS-32 on my 930 SPX Blackwater, and have been very happy with it.

The only thing that I'd like better would be if the Ghost ring sights were just slightly higher.

My understanding is that the Ghost ring sights on the standard SPX "are" slightly higher.

I'd post more recent photos, but seem to be having a problem with PhotoBucket....

But you can see it here...

viewtopic.php?f=125&t=7857

Yep.

Duane

Edit: I think that I have my Photobucket problem figured out...

 
Some questions for the gurus here:

Is it practical/necessary to put an RDS on a HD shotgun? If so, what are the benefits over a standard bead site at ranges encountered in a HD scenario?

I have a M500 18.5" HD that is pre-drilled for optics. What would it take to mount one of these, say for instance, a Sightmark Sure Shot Reflex Sight, onto my shotgun?

TIA
 
Howdy bwalker.

All you need is a railed sight base and you're good to go. As far as a bead vs. RDS for HD, you're probably gonna get a mixed bag of answers from everybody. The general pro of an RDS is that once sighted in it gives you an instant point of aim rather than having to line up a bead with the receiver. The thought process is that an RDS allows for faster target acquisition. The general con is that they are electronic, they run on batteries, and are useless when they fail. If the batteries die, the RDS and railed base are blocking the line of sight to the bead and you're left with no sights at all. If you find one that you feel is reliable enough to trust your life to, then go for it. I have not found that one yet. I really like my little SightMark Mini Shot but it sits on my range gun, not the one I use for HD. EOTech is my go-to for my rifles, but any of them set-up for HD also have irons that co-witness with the optic. If the unit fails or the batteries die, I still have iron sights to fall back on. For me, it doesn't get much more practical than a Meprolight tritium bead for HD. It's inexpensive, quick on target, and works extremely well in low light or no light conditions...
 
That about covers it I would only add that more people are going to be faster with a dot……also take into consideration the height it adds to the top of the receiver and how it will affect you sight line and cheek weld, some folks don’t mind some do….its all doable I personally need a good cheek weld with a shotgun and high power rifle, everything else it isn’t mandatory for me

And one more thing, I think I was generally more accurate with my reflex than with the bead....with less effort yet I dont run it anymore......now if you can drop cash on the best fool proof system out there then cool
 
I'm about to get another Bushnell trophy 4 reticle red dot scope to mount in an Aimpoint cantilever mount so it will cowitness with buis'.

I have a cheap bsa 4 reticle sight on the gun now, but with only 7 brightness levels, washes out on a target during the day, rendering it useless junk.

Not going on a shotgun though.
 
LAZY EYED SNIPER said:
Howdy bwalker.

The general con is that they are electronic, they run on batteries, and are useless when they fail. If the batteries die, the RDS and railed base are blocking the line of sight to the bead and you're left with no sights at all. If you find one that you feel is reliable enough to trust your life to, then go for it. I have not found that one yet.
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Thanks for the great input guys. What L.E.S. says pretty much convinces me it's not a great idea for my HD shotty. Doesn't really keep in line with the KISS concept for a reliable HD shotgun. Now if I had a dedicated range shotty then that would be different. However, as I think about it, it shouldn't be a big deal to just remove it from the rail after a trip to the range. I'll have to think on that...

Now I do have a new rifle for range use and longer distance SHTF defense. It has the basic A2 front sight with rear sight on the detachable carry handle. I've heard sights like the Aimpoint PRO Patrol Rifle Optic are popular but that seems a bit pricey. It's a new rifle with virtually no recoil and yet even at 50 yards I'm not very consistent. (I know, what an amateur.) :oops: I could really use an RDS for it but the nearly $400 price tag of the Aimpoint Pro seems a bit high. Can someone recommend something along the $100-$150 range or is that just too low for a decent sight?

I've also heard the term "holographic" used when talking RDS. What's the difference? Sorry for so many questions. I've got a lot of catching up to do. :?

Thx!
 
Here's a review I posted of a great optic I've been using for a while...

iTac Defense: 3x Prismatic Scope Review

Looks like SIG Sauer has bought iTAC Defense since I posted this review and the price has gone up a bit as well...

CP1 Optical Scope

You'll see the terms Reflex and Holographic used when referencing red dots where the dot or reticle is projected on a single surface. Most inexpensive red dots are the reflex variety. They use a relatively low power LED light that produces a reticle at a singular point in the center of the HUD. With this type of sight you will need to make sure the dot is in the visual center of the display to maintain your zeroed POI. A holographic sight utilizes a more powerful laser that bounces around and is distorted to produce an often more complex and intense reticle that is projected everywhere in the HUD. Once a holographic sight is zeroed, no matter where the eye picks up the reticle on the HUD it is still aligned with the point of aim/impact...
 
Wow, very informative info. It's making sense now. I checked the review of the CP1 and it looked very impressive. BTW, beautiful rifle you have that mounted on. I found that sight available for $147. That's right at the price range I was looking for. You tested it at 100 yards and got great results. Is it equally good at close range such as 25 yards? Also, does it fall into the "holographic" category? I couldn't really tell from the description. From the pics in the link it doesn't look like it sights with an actual "red dot" that I've seen in other pics of RDSs.
 
Thank you Sir,

...and yes, the sight works well at 25yd too. The CP1 is a low power fixed 3x scope rather than a red dot. It uses two lenses and a fixed/etched range-finding reticle as a point of aim rather than a projected dot. The glass is crystal clear and target aquisition is quick & easy. The reticle can be illuminated to various intensity in red or green with a twist of a knob, or clearly shows up black without illumination. Even with dead batteries, the CP1 remains 100% functional...
 
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