Still don't understand

[mjadams61]

My 1st deer rifle was a winchester cant remember the model that shot the .243. My dad had me practice alot with that rifle until I got the shot placement down to dang near perfect. In fact my first time I got a deer at 75 yards with one shot after he stumble for about 5 yards before dropping. The deer weighted about 125 pounds before dressing. My Dad taught me kentucky windage and judging distance with common objects like fence post, salt licks and such. He taught me what different calibers are good for to. But not once did he ever go into the complicated ballistics talk with me.You know the one the techno babble science of each round that after about 5 minutes of reading or hearing it your brain locks up and you get cross eye from it. A year before my dad died I ask him about that. Heck the only thing my dad could not do as a gunsmith was cut, drill rifle a barrell because he could not afford the equip. But he ask me a question back,"Would you have thought about all that while you was out hunting?" I replied back nope and he said there ya go . But back to the point of this topic. Why now, why is alot of peeps really anal about letting you know the ballistic coeffeciate or shock or what ever the techno babble is about a bullet? I just want to know how far a bullet will travel and will it kill what I am hunting, that is it no long drawn out crap.

 

[old mossy]

My 1st deer rifle was a winchester cant remember the model that shot the .243. My dad had me practice alot with that rifle until I got the shot placement down to dang near perfect. In fact my first time I got a deer at 75 yards with one shot after he stumble for about 5 yards before dropping. The deer weighted about 125 pounds before dressing. My Dad taught me kentucky windage and judging distance with common objects like fence post, salt licks and such. He taught me what different calibers are good for to. But not once did he ever go into the complicated ballistics talk with me.You know the one the techno babble science of each round that after about 5 minutes of reading or hearing it your brain locks up and you get cross eye from it. A year before my dad died I ask him about that. Heck the only thing my dad could not do as a gunsmith was cut, drill rifle a barrell because he could not afford the equip. But he ask me a question back,"Would you have thought about all that while you was out hunting?" I replied back nope and he said there ya go . But back to the point of this topic. Why now, why is alot of peeps really anal about letting you know the ballistic coeffeciate or shock or what ever the techno babble is about a bullet? I just want to know how far a bullet will travel and will it kill what I am hunting, that is it no long drawn out crap.

my 2 $,,, there are a lot of people that shoot for other things than hunting. if no one ever paid attention to how far a bullet traveled or penetrated. how would you know what ammo to buy for hunting deer? how would you know what ammo to buy for shooting clays? i hope you understand what i'm trying to say. without all this knowledge we all would be lost.

i too sometimes get lost in all the ballistic talk,but we need it to learn.

 

[mjadams61]

My 1st deer rifle was a winchester cant remember the model that shot the .243. My dad had me practice alot with that rifle until I got the shot placement down to dang near perfect. In fact my first time I got a deer at 75 yards with one shot after he stumble for about 5 yards before dropping. The deer weighted about 125 pounds before dressing. My Dad taught me kentucky windage and judging distance with common objects like fence post, salt licks and such. He taught me what different calibers are good for to. But not once did he ever go into the complicated ballistics talk with me.You know the one the techno babble science of each round that after about 5 minutes of reading or hearing it your brain locks up and you get cross eye from it. A year before my dad died I ask him about that. Heck the only thing my dad could not do as a gunsmith was cut, drill rifle a barrell because he could not afford the equip. But he ask me a question back,"Would you have thought about all that while you was out hunting?" I replied back nope and he said there ya go . But back to the point of this topic. Why now, why is alot of peeps really anal about letting you know the ballistic coeffeciate or shock or what ever the techno babble is about a bullet? I just want to know how far a bullet will travel and will it kill what I am hunting, that is it no long drawn out crap.

my 2 $,,, there are a lot of people that shoot for other things than hunting. if no one ever paid attention to how far a bullet traveled or penetrated. how would you know what ammo to buy for hunting deer? how would you know what ammo to buy for shooting clays? i hope you understand what i'm trying to say. without all this knowledge we all would be lost.

i too sometimes get lost in all the ballistic talk,but we need it to learn.

Mossy I was just on a rant. Heck my dad had every book there was concerning ammo and what each round would do in certain situations, weather, temp, how far up from the target to how far down. Heck even did spotting before they came out with on the plane laser targeting systems. I went to a place near my house to pick up a cheap box of ammo 30-06 and since they had it behind the counter I had to ask the person for a box. My exact words was "What the cheapest 30-06 you got" Well he went into asking what I needed it for and then went into all that techno babble on each round and grain and after about 5 minutes I just turned around and left and travel 12 miles down the road to acadamy sports and got me a 15 dollar box of 20 rounds Monarch that was out in the open off the shelf lol. Not a word spoken by anyone on what that round could do lol.

 

[old mossy]

My 1st deer rifle was a winchester cant remember the model that shot the .243. My dad had me practice alot with that rifle until I got the shot placement down to dang near perfect. In fact my first time I got a deer at 75 yards with one shot after he stumble for about 5 yards before dropping. The deer weighted about 125 pounds before dressing. My Dad taught me kentucky windage and judging distance with common objects like fence post, salt licks and such. He taught me what different calibers are good for to. But not once did he ever go into the complicated ballistics talk with me.You know the one the techno babble science of each round that after about 5 minutes of reading or hearing it your brain locks up and you get cross eye from it. A year before my dad died I ask him about that. Heck the only thing my dad could not do as a gunsmith was cut, drill rifle a barrell because he could not afford the equip. But he ask me a question back,"Would you have thought about all that while you was out hunting?" I replied back nope and he said there ya go . But back to the point of this topic. Why now, why is alot of peeps really anal about letting you know the ballistic coeffeciate or shock or what ever the techno babble is about a bullet? I just want to know how far a bullet will travel and will it kill what I am hunting, that is it no long drawn out crap.

my 2 $,,, there are a lot of people that shoot for other things than hunting. if no one ever paid attention to how far a bullet traveled or penetrated. how would you know what ammo to buy for hunting deer? how would you know what ammo to buy for shooting clays? i hope you understand what i'm trying to say. without all this knowledge we all would be lost.

i too sometimes get lost in all the ballistic talk,but we need it to learn.

Mossy I was just on a rant. Heck my dad had every book there was concerning ammo and what each round would do in certain situations, weather, temp, how far up from the target to how far down. Heck even did spotting before they came out with on the plane laser targeting systems. I went to a place near my house to pick up a cheap box of ammo 30-06 and since they had it behind the counter I had to ask the person for a box. My exact words was "What the cheapest 30-06 you got" Well he went into asking what I needed it for and then went into all that techno babble on each round and grain and after about 5 minutes I just turned around and left and travel 12 miles down the road to acadamy sports and got me a 15 dollar box of 20 rounds Monarch that was out in the open off the shelf lol. Not a word spoken by anyone on what that round could do lol.

sounds like he taught you well.

i too am amazed at all the ballistic stuff.

 

[John A.]

Your Dad was a very smart man.

 

[nitesite]

I agree that it can get a bit boring, and some shooters (riflemen usually) get overly zealous on the numbers. But the reason that the info is out there is because in some shooting scenarios you cannot compete or hunt successfully without the data.

Deer hunting almost universally is done at close ranges. Knowing Kentucky windage and correctly estimating distance with a properly sighted-in rifle and being familiar with a consistent load from that rifle is about all one needs.

But let's say you simply want to know the numbers, or are required to shoot at a multitude of ranges with varying wind drifts and elevations and humidities, well I guess than that having such "boring" data might be beneficial. All you have to do to see their relative merit is to use a ballistics calculator such as http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resou ... calculator once or twice.

All that mumbo-jumbo is largely overlooked by me, save for one feature most of the time.

I have a chronograph, so I can know bullet velocities from my rifles. With that knowledge, and the ballistic coefficient of the bullet and its weight, I can sight in each of my rifles for the most optimum point-blank range possible. If I can get a sight setting that allows me to be 0.75" low at 50-yards, 0.5" high at 100 and 2.0" low at 200 than I am golden. Or whatever the "best overall" flight path is possible with a given load from my rifles. With one 50-yard zero (5-shots) I am through, although I might fire one or two rounds at longer distances for confidence building.

How much ammo would I need to expend on paper over and over and over if all I had was a box of rifle ammo and had absolutely no idea of the flight path/velocity/drop and previously never become familiar with? I'd have to shoot at actual ranges to see what was going to happen.

Now magnify that short-range "point blank" zero out to 800-yards because I am shooting a 6.5 Lapua from a $4000 rifle with a $2000 optic on it. I'm sure as heck not going to expend the time and effort and money to just try eyeballing the correct settings and shooting enough rounds to memorize all that, now am I?

So I agree with the OPs rant that it's oftentimes lost on the majority of average/casual shooters and it should be because it's largely unnecessary.

To some, that gobbledygook is a passion, or a hobby, or a matter of pride in being able to calculate what a good rifle with good ammunition and good dope of the wind and conditions can allow when all the variables come together in one place at the same time.

No different that a motorhead who obsesses with valve grinds and cam durations and compression on a weekend race car.

And mjadams61... If all I wanted was some inexpensive ammo for some close range shooting and I got that techno-babble guy holding me up, I would have walked away as well.

 

[mjadams61]

I agree that it can get a bit boring, and some shooters (riflemen usually) get overly zealous on the numbers. But the reason that the info is out there is because in some shooting scenarios you cannot compete or hunt successfully without the data.

Deer hunting almost universally is done at close ranges. Knowing Kentucky windage and correctly estimating distance with a properly sighted-in rifle and being familiar with a consistent load from that rifle is about all one needs.

But let's say you simply want to know the numbers, or are required to shoot at a multitude of ranges with varying wind drifts and elevations and humidities, well I guess than that having such "boring" data might be beneficial. All you have to do to see their relative merit is to use a ballistics calculator such as http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resou ... calculator once or twice.

All that mumbo-jumbo is largely overlooked by me, save for one feature most of the time.

I have a chronograph, so I can know bullet velocities from my rifles. With that knowledge, and the ballistic coefficient of the bullet and its weight, I can sight in each of my rifles for the most optimum point-blank range possible. If I can get a sight setting that allows me to be 0.75" low at 50-yards, 0.5" high at 100 and 2.0" low at 200 than I am golden. Or whatever the "best overall" flight path is possible with a given load from my rifles. With one 50-yard zero (5-shots) I am through, although I might fire one or two rounds at longer distances for confidence building.

How much ammo would I need to expend on paper over and over and over if all I had was a box of rifle ammo and had absolutely no idea of the flight path/velocity/drop and previously never become familiar with? I'd have to shoot at actual ranges to see what was going to happen.

Now magnify that short-range "point blank" zero out to 800-yards because I am shooting a 6.5 Lapua from a $4000 rifle with a $2000 optic on it. I'm sure as heck not going to expend the time and effort and money to just try eyeballing the correct settings and shooting enough rounds to memorize all that, now am I?

So I agree with the OPs rant that it's oftentimes lost on the majority of average/casual shooters and it should be because it's largely unnecessary.

To some, that gobbledygook is a passion, or a hobby, or a matter of pride in being able to calculate what a good rifle with good ammunition and good dope of the wind and conditions can allow when all the variables come together in one place at the same time.

No different that a motorhead who obsesses with valve grinds and cam durations and compression on a weekend race car.

And mjadams61... If all I wanted was some inexpensive ammo for some close range shooting and I got that techno-babble guy holding me up, I would have walked away as well.

Oh lord I hate to admit I am still a little bit a motorhead not as bad as I use to be . My dad had the coolest job, he was a trouble shooter for General Motors. He travel all over the world and during summer vacation I got to go with him .
One thing my dad drilled into me is that "Never assume the person you talking to is dumber than you. Never assume also that the same person can understand all the techno babble that you know to".
It just that I found that a majority of the peeps out there that spat that techno babble at you are just stroking their own egos and that is bad juju with me :evil: .

 

[mingaa]

nitesite states it well - have the field skills necessary for the task at hand, have a further command of the science behind the shooting - apply as needed. The 'what' question is important but the 'why' supports it. I start with a chrono as well. This site serves me well and I point it out to a lot of people: http://www.ballistics101.com/

When I buy ammo and have to go through a sales person I usually tell them what I want. I'll listen to new info or opinions/recommendations as well, within reason!