The right weapon

[GunnyGene]

Maybe it's just me, but I read a lot of posts where it seems that the choice of weapon/ammo is often independent of the expected circumstances, range, etc. Why is that? I know many folks only have the wherewithal to have one or maybe 2 weapons at their disposal, but I think a critical look at the above might lead them to a better decision when purchasing.

I understand the demonstration of skill in hitting the bull every time with peep sights at 500yds - I did that for 20 years - but the reality of hunting, combat, or HD is considerably different than the prone position on a KD range.

Me, for example: I have no real need for anything that will pit the ace at 500 yds or more. In fact most of my everyday hunting, etc. is under 100yds due to forest, and of course in house is under 50 ft max - most likely under 20ft. And I don't discount the usefulness of a blade or piece of hickory when it gets up close and personal.

Anyway, I choose my weaponry based on the expected circumstances. In Nam, I had little use for the issue M-14, and instead would carry a M3, a Thompson, or Win Model 12 in addition to a 1911A1.

Here at home, my choice is somewhat more limited (no full auto available!) so I rely on my Mossy 590, a .41 Mag Ruger, and a couple other short range but very reliable weapons. I certainly wouldn't bother with a 7.62 or 5.56 AR or AK style weapon.

So my question is what do y'all consider in your choices of weaponry?

 

[OhioArcher]

Good question, Gunny. I had always "wanted" an AR so I made that happen late last year. I have plenty of shotguns but got one more for 3 gun.. I use it more than the others right now--skeet, 3 gun, range play. Pistols I'm not heavy in...I would like a .45ACP but times are tough so I don't know how that will turn out.

My thoughts on the AR...has good range if needed, plenty of rounds can be fed to it, small and lightweight. OK for HD, probably not for things that go bump in the night at less than 25 feet.

Shotguns...my older ones are from my Dad's era but still shoot well. Do not want to modify them at all. A couple others can be modified if needed but all have furniture that would need to be removed to add any gun-owner bling...scope, red dot, laser, lights, etc. Except my latest which has a picatinny rail. Just need a light/laser mount and a sling. Long and bulky but definitely the bee's knees for stopping power.

Pistols...the ones I have are adequate depending on your view of the calibers. Easier to use in close quarters. Right next the bed. Family can use it as well. A .45ACP would be nice for more stopping power and add a laser as well. But that remains unlikely at this time.

All but a couple are looked up 24/7. So getting to any that I don't have out would be problematic if in a hurry.

 

[GunnyGene]

OA, I also get the "hobby" thing. But I don't consider firearms a hobby, or all that so-called 'tactical' stuff (lasers etc.) of much use. I'm all about function rather than 'style'. On patrol it was dirty utilities (dungaree's to the army pukes ), jungle boots, bush hat, knife, and as much ammo, water, etc. as was appropriate to the mission. Forget body armor or other extraneous junk. It just slows you down, wears you out, and makes noise. I have the same attitude towards HD and hunting now, as I did back then. KISS.

 

[oli700]

AR 15…..recently took the role that my Mini 14 held for years.....all around battle rifle, Go to for the unknown.
I can be effective from point blank to 400 or so yards. ….they say 600 but I don’t know how much I like the 223 that far out for energy. I would hunt with it but only up to deer and not over 200 yards, and that’s pushing it for a 4 legged target…really much more accurate than I am with the red dot, needs a touch of magnification and this would be an ear hole rifle

My bolt action Ruger M77 in 30-06. …..all ranges.
The most awesome cartridge ever produced IMO. For hunting here a high power rifle is smart not only for longer ranges but for large game. This rifle would make a good 1000 yard rifle with the right scope.
Here there are all kinds of conditions. You may be in thick woods where 30 yard shots are all your going to get, you can break into 500 yard long meadows, in mountainous terrain long shots are more common than one might think. Shooting across draws and down steep angles can make for real long shots…..I have seen 800 yard kills on a lot of game, I have only had the opportunity to kill a deer out to 400….doesn’t sound like a lot but it feels like a mile with a 3-9.
Of course this rifle would work well in any short to long range role where a ton of fire isn’t needed.

Mossberg 500 VCS …..all around defensive ,hunting. My favorite camp defense…..favorite 0 to 40 yard hunting gun for large game, good short range bird like grouse or quail.

Winchester 1300 poly choke semi auto 12 gauge……long range bird, clay gun.

CZ75 SP-01 9mm, go to HD weapon it sits by the bed with a TLR1s on the rail, 20 rounds……extreamly accurate and fast firing. I can easily hit 12” gongs off hand at 50 yards.
Not the most powerful handgun I own but the confidence it gives me is off the chart. This would also be my choice for open carry in a combative situation…..the long grip keeps me from concealing it

Glock 29, 10mm Auto. This is my conceal carry, the pistol works….the cartridge is phenomenal. Can be loaded for all kinds of applications, these can also be used for hunting and when loaded to full potential it can send 220 grains at 1200fps. I have short 10 round mags for CC and long 15 round mags because this is usually my open carry in the woods where people aren’t as much of a concern as mountain lion and bear. The round surpasses 357 magnum in power and can rival 41 magnum but it carries 16 rounds.


I have many other weapons but those are my every day weapons.

 

[John A.]

I sold many of my guns over the last few years for various reasons.

But I kept a few in 7.62x39 because I have some ammo for it, and it performs very well at the distances that I would need it for and has enough oomph to allow me to use it for moderate to fairly heavy game.

Same for the shotguns. They allow me hunt anything from small furbearers up to the largest critters in my woods (large black bears and elk) depending on what shell was in the chamber at any given time.

Like most of you guys, I don't really have a need for anything that shoots bug nut accuracy at long range, but I like to be reasonably accurate with it out to about maybe 150 yards, and typically well within 100.

Not saying that anyone doesn't or wouldn't be able to see its' advantages, just that I am not afforded very long range shots due to my terrain and surroundings. So, I concentrate more on what I need it for.

I also have a 223 because they are very accurate, and the reason for me choosing an AR to deliver it is the ability to swap uppers and calibers to something other than 223 in a matter of seconds. But since I am a firm believer that shot placement is key, I like to be able to put it exactly where I want it and I am very comfortable with the platform.

As for handguns, I have a few different calibers there as well, but since I have a few NFA items in 9mm also, it only makes sense for me to be able to share ammo for both primary and secondary weapons, so the 9x19 flavor has a more dedicated purpose that I am not going to get into here.

 

[mingaa]

HD falls like this :
Tier1- Glock 22 & 34 & Kahr CW9 (ready at hand)
Tier2 - Mossberg 930
Tier 3 - DPMS AR-15

 

[cmcdonald]

I rely on my Mossberg 500 as my primary weapon for HD and would become my main survival choice if the need arose. Obvious choice, given my available weapons. Birdshot, buck & slugs make it very versatile. Not to mention, planning on going along on a bear hunt this year...this is my first choice for bushwhacking and hoofing through the timber tracking a wounded animal.

The terrain here is highly variable. From dense urban to dense bush, mountains and wide open fields. Hard to make due with only one weapon.

My ol' Winchester 64B 22LR is a great choice for short range, small game. I have a relatively cheap scope on it ('bout 60 bucks) but it is pinhead accurate out to 40 yds.

The 30.30 Savage is destined to be an heirloom piece. Not that it's anything special but it belonged to my wife's grandfather, it has huge sentimental value and I've refinished the stock and brought it back from the "brink". I may actually "loan" it to my mother-in-law so she can hang it over the fireplace at the family cabin.

My newest edition is a scoped Remington 700 chambered in .270 Win and is definitely my go to hunting rifle. It's good for darn near anything I would need to put down out to 400 yds or more. It packs a heckuva punch for a smaller caliber (cousin to the 30.06). The .270 has a fast and flat trajectory.

Money is limited but I would love to add at least one handgun, a 9mm would be my likely choice and a good quality, semi-auto hunting SG. An AR would be cool, but a Mini-14 is more likely in line with what I can afford. Not to mention, AR's are restricted here and you can't just take 'em anywhere. It's costly trying to stock a decent level of ammo for 4 different calibers...so I'm not really itching to buy a different caliber weapon right now.

No more additions this year anyway, have to buy the wife a crossbow first...she bin watchin' waaaaay too much Walking Dead!

 

[aksavanaman]

Man Gunny.. what a topic! Sooooo many different opinions on the matter. What I like about your approach to it, we'll keep it simple and stick to KISS , is that you've chosen your gear and weapons from real life experience and know exactly what works for you! The problem is that unless you've seen combat, are an experienced LEO or can share a real life HD or CCW story and scenario, most of us are stuck with finding things that fit and function, and hope they come together when the time arises.

I'm still learning every day about what works and what doesn't! I don't nearly get out to the range as often as I want (or can afford) so now my practice and limited Coast Guard training are all I can rely on. As stated by the others and yourself, I really think it comes down to what YOU think you might need your firearms for. The subject of what guns to own and which ones they should be has been !!!

Honestly, I would pick up the 590, 9 times out of 10... simply because of the versatility and stopping power at ranges most likely encountered during a threat situation. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't have a use for my other firearms. I'm just now getting into hunting and would like to get a nice workhorse 30-06 down the road... which of course would work on those "two legged" targets if it ever had to. I'm not proficient enough in my handgun skills to choose that as my first HD or combat weapon. And of course the .22, of any variety is a must, for fun, for use and function... if you can find ammo

 

[John A.]

Yeah, the venerable 22 has been slated as one of the "must-haves" of all time, although now, ammo availability for months has been non-existant.

Go figure.

People have been saying for a long time that if they couldn't hinder firearms, they'd go after ammunition.

Looks like one way or another, they found their way to do that.

 

[GunnyGene]

I hope no one thinks that I'm trying to be controversial with this - I don't begrudge anyone their choice of weapons or gear, or their reasons for buying anything - it's their money .

It just seems to me that many people who are new to the sport or weapons generally, are buying something because of the "cool" factor, or some sales pitch, or because their neighbor has such and such - rather than really thinking about it. And then after the novelty wears off, it sits in a safe locked up, unloaded, and basically useless.

There are exceptions of course, and I'm all for encouraging the uninitiated to arm themselves and enjoy the sport, etc. , but I wish they would be a little more introspective before jumping in the pool. There is no shallow end.

No different than buying a car in that respect, I suppose. I'd love to have a Ferrari, but my old beater pickup is far more useful and reliable.

 

[MikeD]

Well said gunny.

My basic philospohy: Keep it simple and let the mission drive the gear.

Think about what you want to do, what the best gear is to accomplish that goal and buy accordingly.

People new to guns don't have the knowledge base to adequately know what they need for their mission so they tend to buy what the marketers tell them they need and then try to figure out how to make what they bought fit what they truly need I have learned the hard way that what looks cool, is not necesarily the most efficient or reliable way to go.

None of us jumped right in without some trial and error. It takes a while to get familiar enough with realize what you "need" in a gun vs what is cool to have in/on a gun.

Training makes you a better shooter, not mag extensions, lasers, VFG's, etc.

 

[GunnyGene]

Well said gunny.

My basic philospohy: Keep it simple and let the mission drive the gear.

Speaking of mission driving gear, I knew a guy who had that down to a science. His job was to go out alone at nite and watch a designated area for infiltrators. His gear consisted of war paint, black pj's and sneakers, and a combat knife. He was very, very good at it.

 

[oli700]

To me it’s like going to the tool box for a wrench.....more wrenches, more options you have. They are all fun to shoot so when its range time I try to throw in a tool I haven’t used in a while. If I notice I am rusty with something I will shoot it until I feel proficient with it again....can’t stand to feel rusty when it comes to firearms....it’s why I shoot so much.

As far as ammo, I reload 9mm,10mm,223,30-06 and 12 gauge so I shoot those the most......the wife has claimed the 10/22 and has an SR22 so she shoots those , down to about 2500 22's so she slowed down.....

But I know what you’re saying Gunny…..lots of folks with more money or credit than since ….hey if they like to look at them, show them off and barely shoot em I guess that’s their choice. I would rather be an expert with a couple than have shot a bunch once or twice….I actually talked to a guy at work Friday that had bought a 40 cal last summer, I asked him how he liked it, he said “ it’s awesome”…. “haven’t shot it yet but I love it”…… I couldn’t grasp it

 

[GunnyGene]

...I actually talked to a guy at work Friday that had bought a 40 cal last summer, I asked him how he liked it, he said “ it’s awesome”…. “haven’t shot it yet but I love it”…… I couldn’t grasp it

Yep . I only have one gun I've never fired - an antique Penn Long Rifle - simply because I can't find caps to fit the old big nipple, and don't want to drill out and retap for modern #11 caps. I'd love to shoot it if I can ever find original size caps, but nobody makes 'em anymore.

 

[aksavanaman]

I actually talked to a guy at work Friday that had bought a 40 cal last summer, I asked him how he liked it, he said “ it’s awesome”…. “haven’t shot it yet but I love it”…… I couldn’t grasp it

I hope the pillow talk with his .40 is AMAZING!

 

[MikeD]

I actually talked to a guy at work Friday that had bought a 40 cal last summer, I asked him how he liked it, he said “ it’s awesome”…. “haven’t shot it yet but I love it”…… I couldn’t grasp it

This guy will be a great source of supplies when the SHTF. :twisted:

 

[oli700]

he even started bragging about the 40 S&W !.....I like a .40 as much as the next guy but I acted less than impressed at that point, then for the hell of it I told him the history of his cartridge, he was "what kind of 40 do you have ?!" I said "never owned one"

 

[jgwills]

Marketers have a tough time selling something to folks that might not ever actually use it. The whole I'm gonna scare em off with a rack of the shotgun thing only goes so far IMHO but alot of first time "home defense" weapon buyers get that advice for sure. They buy with confidence that if the possible home invader sees me holding this or if I rack one into the chamber problem solved. Sadly the outcome of that ignorance can turn ugly in a hurry.

Dad always taught me that if you chose to pull a gun on someone and draw a bead be commited to utilize it. More importantly he stressed don't shoot to wound, always intend to shoot to stop them in their tracks. If you wind up wounding them so be it but expect you will kill them. I to this day take that advice to heart. I guarantee you for sure if an intruder has a buddy or two in tow the only advance warning they are getting is the sound of my first round going off and then me racking it as it is now their turn.

If you are a current/former Mil/LE type or a survivalist then its already pretty clear in your mind what the correct tool for the job at hand requires going into a situation. Thats where having a variety of weapons on hand is highly advisable. As already stated, sometimes a nice crossbow or a simple boot knife might be the better option.

Same for a dedicated sportsman. He/she will have multiple tools available depending what they are exactly hunting.

Either category will walk into a gunshop and already know exactly what thier needs are and will purchase accordingly.

The casual buyer who realizes crimes up in the area so maybe I should have something in the back of the closet usually also have minimal to no experience with a firearm period. Of course some dealers can and will use this to their advantage to push slow moving product or something slightly more expensive then what they actually require. What does he care if the buyer can't actually handle it after the sale. As long as he got his money and the brady check said proceed all is good on his end.

The comment about the gent with his unshot .40 is a prime example. Now if a gun collector acquires something extremely rare and worth a pretty penny its acceptable to leave it unfired. If its a home owner that simply buys something for possible home defense he/she should at least fire a few boxes through it. Finding out you bought something defective at 2 am with an uninvited guest in the house is a bad way to find out. Or missed rounds because you can't control the weapon properly wind up hurting innocents in the process of fighting back.

Sad but its reality.

For those that have experience and some practice wether formal or informal share what you know to those who might not. I know you guys do. If some one brings up the topic and asks for advice, be blunt and honest. I always tell of my dad drilling into my head that a firearm is meant to be utilized, not a deterrent. Some folks might just be better off with a pepper spray can if they really don't think they can't bring themselves to taking someone elses life away from them no matter the situation. Purchasing a firearm might be pointless unless they will actually utilize it as intended. I always like the women that tell me they don't think they could bring themselves to kill someone. I always tell them I think they wouldn't even blink for a second about pulling the trigger if someone were molesting or trying to kidnap their child from them. They usually pause for a moment and then reply that would probably do it.

For those who are comfortable with guns and have a game plan I think most of us have something like this in mind.

A CCW type weapon to get you back to your nightstand pistols or long guns firstly. A long gun(s) or other pistol(s) to make a stand in your homestead. Enter most likely a shotgun. Finally something to go on the offensive if required or to harvest game for food. You pick your choice of any centerfire rifle caliber and platform you wish. Alternatively a rimfire of some type, again your choice of caliber if intending to hunt same game instead. Shotgun obviously can also fill this role as well using different barrels with slugs/buck or of course birdshot if you are intending to put birds on the dinner table. Same can be acheived with some handguns too. Most likely an extreme scenario for sure but you never know.

Your region of the country also helps dictate the right tool for the job. A shotgun setup for turkey will probably not be useful for finding turkey in the SW area of the country. That said if its all you got then use it. Number one rule to remember in any gun fight, bring some form of a gun. Even if its not the best tool available its better than nada.

 

[tcecil88]

Because I live in the country, I have a layered defense. All long-guns have loaded mags and empty chambers, handgun is kept loaded with a round in the chamber.
1) Sig Sauer P250F 9mm 17+1 with night sights and a Streamlight TLR-1 on the headboard for clearing the house and retrieving family members if necessary.
2) Mossberg 930 SPX 7+1 with night sights and a Streamlight TLR-1 for bunkering up in the house.
3) Sig Sauer M400 AR15 in 5.56mm with night sights and a Streamlight TLR-1 HP for clearing the immediate property.
4) Remington 700 AAC-SD in .308 for clearing the neighbor's property from the safety of my property. :twisted:
I am still working on the load-out for these weapons, but that in itself is fun.

 

[jgwills]

You have the accompanying can for the 700 AAC?