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Undergassed AR15

John A.

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As the title states, I have a severely undergassed midlength upper that I recently bought from PSA.

I have never really been a fan of midlength gas system from day one anyway, and this just reinforces the reason(s) why, but I wanted to own one for a while to give them an honest shake, but I plan to check to see what the gas port diameter is, and likely will end up opening it up so that it is getting a proper amount of gas to cycle the weapon correctly within the next week.

Here is the first trip out. It was failing to feed, short stroking, failing to lock into battery, etc.


After I came home and cocked the charging handle about a hundred times, it did loosen the bolt up some, and I also installed a different rifle buffer spring that was about an inch and a half shorter and thus was weaker than the spring that came included in the UTG A2 stock.

I also checked the function with a different lower (one that had a collapsible stock, standard buffer and spring) and it cycled the same.

As you can see, that while it is functioning now, it is still ejecting to the 5 o'clock position and in my opinion, just barely cycling properly. Just watch the empties flying over the shoulder and barely missing the face and landing well behind the shooter.

So, to calm my OCD, I will be working on the upper to get the gas more what it should be. The proper wire gauge bits are already ordered.


After a few hours of research, it looks like Sabre Defense 16" Midlengths shipped with .080"-.082" gas port, Spikes recommend going with .076"-.082", Model 1 Sales barrels are at 0.078", Wilson combat uses .085", Noveske uses .080" and Ranier is using .082".

I ordered 2 bits and depending on the port size now, will be using the smallest first, and test fire and if I think it needs more still, I will go back in and do it again with the latter. Just for the record, I am going to use a #47 0.078 and a #46 0.080 respectively.
 
Hmmm - I'd expect better from PSA.
They have grown tremendously in the last few years.
I bet you do find an under-spec gas port and you probably have the solution in hand.
I hope it is a dissemble, measure, drill, reassemble - 1 hour fix!
 
Hmmm - I'd expect better from PSA.
They have grown tremendously in the last few years.
I bet you do find an under-spec gas port and you probably have the solution in hand.
I hope it is a dissemble, measure, drill, reassemble - 1 hour fix!

I think it is mingaa. I'm not sure when brownells is ever going to ship the order. I placed it MONDAY and it still says processing, so doesn't look like it'll even be this weekend. Leaning more towards next week now. But drilling the gas port is a relatively easy process.

Remove handguards, drive out the taper pins in the front sight and move them forward and out of the way, enlarge the existing gas port, reinstall, fire for effect.


I bet its PTAC

You are correct. It was marketed as Ptac.

I wrote a very fair product review of it on their website, but perhaps not very surprisingly, they've not published it on the product page.

But other than the gas issue, it seems that it would make a good atv or trunk/range beater or loaner rifle. And I think I can line it out.

I have never been very fond of the midlength gas concept anyway, but I don't have any 1;7 barrels, and wanted one, so I bought it on a whim to complete the Anderson lower and like I said earlier, to give it a fair shake.

It's cycling properly now, just a little undergassed, which I can work with. Though I admit, this hasn't exactly left me with the warm and fuzzies with Palmetto State Armory. I expected more from them.
 
Palmetto is good,hit or miss with the ptac who is not Palmetto from my findings. I have a good friend who missed with an upper. He has a friend that I don't know who apparently has a couple with their parts that have never had issues.
I bought a ptac lower parts kit for my son we sent back yesterday , I didn't know triggers could be that bad on an AR and if you really hogged on the trigger when the safety was on it would let loose the hammer ! never again

I never have messed with or got any of my merry band into a midlength because you said to stay away from them, I am surprised you bought one. One guy in the group has one and it seems to shoot fine
 
Not good at all.

The LPK that I bought off of them was good. I can't recall who makes the parts that SS is forged into the side of the hammer, though I have gotten those same parts from other companies too. I know I got one from Olympic with the same forge mark on it maybe 2 or 3 years ago???

And I don't think that PSA actually makes anything, though I know they use a lot of FN barrels. At least in their other uppers.

But I don't blame you for sending it back.

If I couldn't have gotten the upper to cycle, I would've sent it back too, but it is cycling now, although weak. It'll be stronger and what it should be when I get done, but had I not known what to do top fix it, I would've been even more upset with the purchase.

I just don't want my oldest son to be hit in the face or eye with empties since he's the only one that would be using it that shoots southpaw. It's a non-issue for everyone else in the family or the very few friends that may use it. Otherwise, I would just leave it be, but my conscience wouldn't let me forgive myself if he got hurt and I could've done something to have avoided it.

So that's the driving force behind the reason why.
 
I just don't want my oldest son to be hit in the face or eye with empties since he's the only one that would be using it that shoots southpaw.

never considered a lefty, that would be an issue with that upper
 
I just don't want to chance him or anyone else getting hurt.

It's a simple fix that will only take a few extra minutes.

Guns are inherently dangerous enough to shoot as it is. At least I'll rest better once it's getting a correct amount of gas for it to work the way it's supposed to.

I had considered leaving that one to him one of these days since he seemed to like it the best. But I gotta know that it's "right" first.
 
didn't think it was possible to be hit in the face with brass until I owned Glock perfection......perfection obviously means something else in Austria
 
I was really concerned that my Dissipator rifle would be under gassed since the port is so close to the barrel crown. I was assured by the barrel maker that it was over-ported to compensate, and so far I think they were correct and got it right.

If I have to work on the port, is driving the taper pins out a really big deal?????
 
If I have to work on the port, is driving the taper pins out a really big deal?????

No, not really to me.

Though would be nice if it was right out of the box and I didn't have to, but by doing it myself, will alleviate all doubt because it will be right.
 
If I have to work on the port, is driving the taper pins out a really big deal?????

They can be @nitesite .

Some mfg. drive them in with a hydraulic press and they can be a booger to push out. Spikes taper pins were apparently set in with Thor's hammer. I have a Brownell's FSP block and a taper pin punch that makes short work of even the toughest pins. I'll be happy to send it down to you to use if you'd like, just ship it back when you're done...
 
Throw on a Krinkov brake on the under gassed rifles.....that should do it
 
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I fought the taper pins on mine with different punches, and drilled wood blocks for support for awhile. Then watched a YouTube video. Sprayed the pins with penetrating oil (p b blaster) came back awhile later and they came out (relatively) easy. They are hardened, so getting a punch with a concave end, like for trim nails, help keep it from slipping off.
 
Thank You L.E.S. but I'm GTG and don't forsee needing it but I appreciate the offer.
 
Wire gauge bits arrived today and it looks as if whoever drilled the gas port, didn't have a clue what to do. The gas port was nearly what a carbine gas M4 barrel is. Maybe a hair bigger, but by all intents and purposes was much too small for the less dwell of the midlength.

A more in depth analysis is in the video description.

 
.........Success!
canstock8168922.jpg
 
Glad you got it figured out!!
 
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