I believe he said they added coal jobs too.
Also, where can I buy these full auto assault weapons that have been designed for the battlefield that BHO mentioned? I'd love to get several but can't seem to find them at the local gun shops around here!
War on coal casualties
- Thread starter carbinemike
- Start date
I believe he said they added coal jobs too.
Also, where can I buy these full auto assault weapons that have been designed for the battlefield that BHO mentioned? I'd love to get several but can't seem to find them at the local gun shops around here!
OK, now that I washed some of the nasty feeling I had after watching that, I am not sure what to think about several things.
The President has damaged the Energy Industry and many supporting industries. he outright LIED.
As for assault weapons, I don't really like either one of their answers.
Guns are not the problem.
The Second Amendment does not mention sports or hunting.
Gov Romney, Full Auto's are not illegal to own, however, by law, civilians are not allowed to own one that wasn't already made and registered prior to May 1986. And by the same law, an FBI background check including fingerprints and photographs are kept on file at the ATF/FBI. So it's not like NFA owners are a threat to anyone. They are some of the most law abiding citizens in our country period.
But Full Auto's or any weapons used by a military branch were not the question to begin with. Neither person got that right.
Any weapon could include shotguns, pistols, and rifles if you want to have a broad interpretation.
Out of listening to what both men had to say, Romney was the lesser of the two evils. But I don't really like either mans' answer.
The President has damaged the Energy Industry and many supporting industries. he outright LIED.
As for assault weapons, I don't really like either one of their answers.
Guns are not the problem.
The Second Amendment does not mention sports or hunting.
Gov Romney, Full Auto's are not illegal to own, however, by law, civilians are not allowed to own one that wasn't already made and registered prior to May 1986. And by the same law, an FBI background check including fingerprints and photographs are kept on file at the ATF/FBI. So it's not like NFA owners are a threat to anyone. They are some of the most law abiding citizens in our country period.
But Full Auto's or any weapons used by a military branch were not the question to begin with. Neither person got that right.
Any weapon could include shotguns, pistols, and rifles if you want to have a broad interpretation.
Out of listening to what both men had to say, Romney was the lesser of the two evils. But I don't really like either mans' answer.
raven01750
.270 WIN
I see a WHOLE lot of anger, blame and finger pointing here. But you know what? It's just part of the political and business cycle. Follow the money... The Natural Gas Industry is doing pretty well right now. Hmmm. Does that make the President the one to blame? I don't know. More likely though it's members of C and S that are getting fat contributions from the oil and gas industry. And O&G are obliging by pushing prices down to gain a larger market share.
This is just my humble opinion of course. Once the "executives" at the coal companies realize "their" jobs are on the line, they will find that the rest of the world is a pretty good place to sell all that coal we have. Then the pendulum will swing back the other way with people complaining that the price of coal is too high because we don't have enough coal for our own use. Just a thought. And it doesn't mean that the workers aren't being hurt. But this is no different than any other industry if you break it down. Like I said. Just my own opinion. FWIW.
Paul
This is just my humble opinion of course. Once the "executives" at the coal companies realize "their" jobs are on the line, they will find that the rest of the world is a pretty good place to sell all that coal we have. Then the pendulum will swing back the other way with people complaining that the price of coal is too high because we don't have enough coal for our own use. Just a thought. And it doesn't mean that the workers aren't being hurt. But this is no different than any other industry if you break it down. Like I said. Just my own opinion. FWIW.
Paul
I don't entirely disagree with you Raven. In fact, some of it, I wholly agree. Gas companies are having a boom right now.
But that isn't the main problem. When a coal mine cannot get the required Gov't permit to operate, by law, they cannot operate.
So, it doesn't matter if you can sell every last ounce of the coal that is in the ground whether in the U.S. or overseas, it doesn't help you any at all because you would be breaking the law if you mined it to begin with.
That is the biggest problem right now. The EPA is blocking permits to mine, thus, making it illegal to mine.
They have even revoked permits that they had previously approved, thus again, shutting down entire companies.
I am not making any of this up. It's 100% fact.
It's not selling the coal that's the problem. It's not being allowed to mine the coal from the start of the other processes. That is the major problem facing coal right now.
Coal from my county has been sold to numerous other countries besides the U.S. since the 1960's or 1970's. Even today, we have companies who export to Germany, Belgium, and asian countries.
Selling it isn't the problem.
Not breaking the law via paperwork IS the problem.
The Gov't has not been allowing coal mines to operate.
Entire Industries are at an all time record low, production is down because fewer mines are operating, and there are thousands of people just in my community alone who have lost their jobs because of the Gov't won't allow them to work.
But that isn't the main problem. When a coal mine cannot get the required Gov't permit to operate, by law, they cannot operate.
So, it doesn't matter if you can sell every last ounce of the coal that is in the ground whether in the U.S. or overseas, it doesn't help you any at all because you would be breaking the law if you mined it to begin with.
That is the biggest problem right now. The EPA is blocking permits to mine, thus, making it illegal to mine.
They have even revoked permits that they had previously approved, thus again, shutting down entire companies.
I am not making any of this up. It's 100% fact.
It's not selling the coal that's the problem. It's not being allowed to mine the coal from the start of the other processes. That is the major problem facing coal right now.
Coal from my county has been sold to numerous other countries besides the U.S. since the 1960's or 1970's. Even today, we have companies who export to Germany, Belgium, and asian countries.
Selling it isn't the problem.
Not breaking the law via paperwork IS the problem.
The Gov't has not been allowing coal mines to operate.
Entire Industries are at an all time record low, production is down because fewer mines are operating, and there are thousands of people just in my community alone who have lost their jobs because of the Gov't won't allow them to work.
raven01750
.270 WIN
That I didn't know about. One thing I'm really sure of now is that there is a LOT more to this story than just "The President is killing the coal industry." It's one thing to ban it's use due to health and environmental concerns. it's another thing to completely shut down an industry and I'm frankly surprised that the coal industry isn't suing the pants off of the Govt right now. Interesting...
I'm not big on conspiracy theories. They happen everyday. But I wonder if the US Govt is trying to keep coal as a national reserve by NOT mining it. That would be something...
Paul
I'm not big on conspiracy theories. They happen everyday. But I wonder if the US Govt is trying to keep coal as a national reserve by NOT mining it. That would be something...
Paul
Already been sued.
EPA has lost numerous times in courts all across the U.S., but they still won't issue the necessary permits
Just take 6 minutes to watch these short video's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7-QLP36Thc[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o62C06qkAmY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_5PYN1jDjw[/youtube]
EPA has lost numerous times in courts all across the U.S., but they still won't issue the necessary permits
Just take 6 minutes to watch these short video's.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7-QLP36Thc[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o62C06qkAmY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_5PYN1jDjw[/youtube]
Hey Raven, I'm glad you posted. There are always other sides and things we will never know about an issue. Before BHO was elected he did say he'd set it up that if someone wants to build a coal powered electric plant he would bankrupt them and I believe that's one of a few promises he kept. I think John did a great job of explaining it in greater detail and thanks for posting the educational video clips.
raven01750
.270 WIN
I'm not sure about the BHO quote, but the question that first comes to my mind is "why would he say that?" We know he feels deeply about Green energy. And rightly so I believe. We need to fund and develope other sources of energy besides being held hostage by the Oil Cartels. Although we all know that some of the gambles taken have been failures. And since I am not familiar with the entire conversation the BHO comment came from then I can't really comment. We should all know by now the dangers of taking one line from an entire thought given by any of the candidates and make a decision.
I talked to a 21 year old girl today going to SDSU. She is very educated and involved with what is happening right now. But... She also doesn't have the life experience that made the country the way it is today for good or bad. But I was happy that she at least cared enough to be involved and making decisions based on life as she experiences it. More power to her and all the others like her. One thing I know for certain. Life is not fair. Sometimes it just downright sucks...
Paul
I talked to a 21 year old girl today going to SDSU. She is very educated and involved with what is happening right now. But... She also doesn't have the life experience that made the country the way it is today for good or bad. But I was happy that she at least cared enough to be involved and making decisions based on life as she experiences it. More power to her and all the others like her. One thing I know for certain. Life is not fair. Sometimes it just downright sucks...
Paul
raven01750 said:
Obama did say he would bankrupt the coal industry in reference to coal fired power plants. And to my knowlege, he said it while campaigning back in 2008 in California to boot. It is one of his promises that he has kept.
Biden has also said numerous times he wanted coal out (paraphrasing a little, but the sentiment is still there)
As for taking "one line", there are just too many failures that this administration has done on numerous fronts that makes me feel they do not deserve to have another chance.
They had their opportunity for "change", and it's not the right direction of change.
As for my feelings with coal, as I have openly said, are bittersweet.
If there were viable alternatives, then perhaps it would be a different story. But until alternatives are in place and feasible and sustainable, you simply can't "pull the plug" on the energy source that is there keeping things going in the meantime. Putting the cart in front of the horse has never worked too well.
Obama is pushing his green energy by destroying traditional sources.
He wants traditional sources to suffer and cost more to promote the green.
If I were taking a wild guess, he has a lot of personal stocks and bonds and other money invested in green sources and he's banking on making things harder and more expensive.
Just my personal thoughts and opinions, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out he does have personal investments in green energy.
I'm not against renewable energy, but it's not ready to take a leading role yet.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aLcbr63ME&feature=related[/youtube]
Here's both Obama and Biden quotes. They are in the first 15 seconds or so.
Romney may very well not work out so great either but I think he will be much better than BHO.
Again, thanks for posting Paul!
Here's both Obama and Biden quotes. They are in the first 15 seconds or so.
As usual, John summed it up pretty good. Plusone on the above.
I think he said it because that's what he believes and some voters want to hear...my brother included. It's the same reason he came out with his anti gun crap in the debate...it's what he believes.
Romney may very well not work out so great either but I think he will be much better than BHO.
Again, thanks for posting Paul!
raven01750
.270 WIN
Well, just to clarify here. And I'm sorry for being long winded here. I am an independent. And for me personally, this election isn't about Romney or Obama. It's about the direction this country is going to take for at least the next eight years and very possibly much longer depending on how many Supreme Court Justices are chosen.
We have REAL problems that are going to take a lot more pain to solve. And I don't know who Romney is going to have in his cabinet that are going to be largly responsible for the decisions that are going to have to be made. He could have a cabinet full of idiots. Or maybe he could have the best cabinet in history and take the country to new heights of prosperity.
I truely feel for everyone who has lost everything in the last recession. I was very fortunate that I wasn't one of them. But with that said, I am focused on the direction this country is going to take. And I don't really see that either canidate is going to be able to make the decisions without causing real pain to entire swaths of our society. But then again, my problem is that I don't think it matters who is elected, were going to be forced into that scenario either way.
But what I hope beyond hope, is that others can think this way too no matter which way you decide. Don't be distracted by one thing. Think through all of the issues you can reasonably decide on. I am certain neither candidate is going to make everyone happy. So ask yourself, which parties direction for the country is more likely to work. Because what's at stake is so much more important. FWIW. No bashing on either side and no insults intended.
Paul
We have REAL problems that are going to take a lot more pain to solve. And I don't know who Romney is going to have in his cabinet that are going to be largly responsible for the decisions that are going to have to be made. He could have a cabinet full of idiots. Or maybe he could have the best cabinet in history and take the country to new heights of prosperity.
I truely feel for everyone who has lost everything in the last recession. I was very fortunate that I wasn't one of them. But with that said, I am focused on the direction this country is going to take. And I don't really see that either canidate is going to be able to make the decisions without causing real pain to entire swaths of our society. But then again, my problem is that I don't think it matters who is elected, were going to be forced into that scenario either way.
But what I hope beyond hope, is that others can think this way too no matter which way you decide. Don't be distracted by one thing. Think through all of the issues you can reasonably decide on. I am certain neither candidate is going to make everyone happy. So ask yourself, which parties direction for the country is more likely to work. Because what's at stake is so much more important. FWIW. No bashing on either side and no insults intended.
Paul
Very well put!
Paul, you have a lot of good points in that post. Your right, this election is about a lot more including the Supreme Court nominees you mentioned. I hope you don't think my only issue is coal. I try to keep abreast of all issues and will also vote knowing I have the future of two kids to worry about. The debt run up by both parties and particularly in the last 4 years is obscene. We do have tough choices to fix the mess and as far as I have seen neither side wants to be the bad guy and just fix it. I had hoped Obama would be different and make things better. He had his chance and didn't. I don't think we can recover after 4 more years of him. Romney is far from perfect but since I have to pick between them it will be him.
Going back to the Supreme Court justices, I don't think the Constitution and the 2nd Ammendment can take two more nominees from BHO.
raven01750
.270 WIN
Thank You Mike. Discussing politics can be so decisive. I appreciate your understanding in the points I am trying to express. Right or wrong. Unfortunately the other issue for us as voters, is that the President is not elected by popular vote. I know that even if I vote for Romney, BHO is going to get the entire elctorial college from California. I'm afraid this election is going to tear the country apart. No matter who is elected.
Paul
Paul
raven, thank you for speaking your views.
I agree with what you said. Although this topic is about a single issue, the election isn't. This is much larger than that.
I can't remember when a recent election where we as a country had more at stake than we do now.
Things haven't been right for a long time and it's coming to a head.
I agree with what you said. Although this topic is about a single issue, the election isn't. This is much larger than that.
I can't remember when a recent election where we as a country had more at stake than we do now.
Things haven't been right for a long time and it's coming to a head.
BryanForbes
.410
I'm surprised that the states haven't tried to go to bat for their miners. The EPA is an unconstitutional agency that can be taken care of very easily: nullification by the states by state issued permits to mine. I have a feeling that we're going to see this more and more in the coming years as the "federal" government (I put it in quotes because the 17th amendment took away the voice of the states and made our government a central government) tries to wrest more and more rights away from states and citizens. We're already seeing it in California and other states allowing medical marijuana and even more states refusing to implement Obamacare.
I feel the same way BryanForbes. I think the Governors and State Legislators should be doing more.
In my state, the EPA is being sued by many different sources, and fussed at by the Senate and House, but to no avail.
It is no surprise they're not doing more though because the current Administration likes to sue various states. I can think of several Fed vs State lawsuit examples off the top of my head. Not specifically coal related, but Az (immigration) and other states for asking for valid ID to vote, etc
If anyone has a different view than Obama, expect to "see them in court" [sad rolleyes smiley]
In my state, the EPA is being sued by many different sources, and fussed at by the Senate and House, but to no avail.
It is no surprise they're not doing more though because the current Administration likes to sue various states. I can think of several Fed vs State lawsuit examples off the top of my head. Not specifically coal related, but Az (immigration) and other states for asking for valid ID to vote, etc
If anyone has a different view than Obama, expect to "see them in court" [sad rolleyes smiley]
BryanForbes
.410
John A. said:
While I understand wanting to go to court, I think Washington pays more attention when we (the states and citizens) just ignore them because then we're not playing by their rules
. Just look at the publicity AZ and CA have gotten for ignoring the administration!
Me too.
Ignoring them will wake up the machine quicker than anything else. Another one was when Montana announced federal guns laws didn't pertain to guns made and sold within their borders.
carbinemike said:Ignoring them will wake up the machine quicker than anything else. Another one was when Montana announced federal guns laws didn't pertain to guns made and sold within their borders.
Actually, several states introduced bills that said firearms made within a state, and never sold out of state did not fall within the boundaries of Interstate Commerce and therefore were not under Federal control or jurisdiction.
Tennessee and Kentucky also had similiar bills, but I don't know if any of them were signed into law.
In all honesty, there are very few things that Government is truly responsible for. Government was never supposed to be the answer to everything, and why individual States maintain their sovereignty, even though they are part of the replublic.
That was one of the main driving forces behind the civil war. Government kept over stepping their bounds. There were a lot more issues than slavery (which I always thought was 100% wrong and immoral). Slavery was just the main talking point to get people behind the President and in my opinion rightfully so on that aspect.
But contrary to popular belief today, there were slaves in the northern states too, and one of the main ports slave ships would dock is New York more than a hundred years prior to the civil war. There were slaves in Ohio, Illinois, etc so that was not just something that went on in the southern states although many northern states abolished slavery on their own accord on a state level prior to the civil war.
But one of the big truths about the civil war is, the Government did not like losing its' power and control over the individual states when they seceded and the Gov't lost out on all the land and minerals and materials the southern states had to offer when the states met and gave Washington the finger.
Keep in mind this was at the very birth of the industrial age and the expansion out west, and the Gov't needed everything it could get its' hands on to make it possible. Coal, iron, copper, brass, wood/lumber, etc etc etc
And when those materials were cut by at least a 1/3 (probably more if you calculate sheer land mass/area), that was the big reason the Federal Government declared war on those that seceded, and unrightfully so by law, and the way the Constitution was setup. Individual states are not obligated or required to "belong" to the Govt. If they were, there would be no 48 states in the continental U.S. Just one state nationwide from sea to shining sea.
The civil war was nothing more than a power grab, and declaring war on the southern states that seceded was unconstitutional at best because they no longer "belonged" or were part of the Federal Government. By the way our country was founded, states are not owned by the Federal Government.
I apologize for the hijack. I understand this probably doesn't belong in this topic altogether.