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What are those bulk skeet shells good for?

John A. said:
So far so good, the melting pot should be here later this week so hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to start casting some slugs to put back in there.

And probably early next week, the roll crimp tool and clear overshot cards should be here so I can finish these.
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Newbie questions here:

Can you just use wax to seal the top of the shell?

Would reusing the shot in wax slugs instead of melting them down give you a comparable round with less work?

Are there bullet molds which allow you to cast a rifled slug?
 
Nick Burkhardt said:
OK, maybe using wax to seal the top is not such a good idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnTAr5jqJQI

How do you re-crimp the top after cutting some of the plastic casing away?
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This thread has nothing to do with wax slugs , wax slugs are lame.

Sealing the top of the slugs John is making is perfectly safe, it only takes a couple drops

Nick Burkhardt said:
This looks like a decent method https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQUdrMRsPG8
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No it doesn’t actually, BB's flying everywhere, hands in close proximity to high speed rotary saw. If that plastic snags there is no way your hand is going to hold that shell, might even break a finger.
 
I'm really glad there is a lot of interest in this thread.

Nick, I'm going to try to use a roll crimp over top of clear overshot cards to seal them in because I want them to look good, and if that doesn't work out as well as I want, I will buy a few candles and put a few drops of wax on them to hold them in place. No one has to gob them up real bad.

Here's a link to the roll crimp and a video of how to do it, although not my video

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Origin ... fo/ROLL12/


The slugs sit in the factory shot cup more like a sabot round, so I don't have to do a whole lot to the shells themselves to change them.

And I ordered the 1 ounce slug mold so I am assured that I don't make too heavy of a slug causing pressure issues or having a big piece of wax break in the barrel, causing an obstruction (squib), which is likely what happened in the video you linked if I was guessing.

As for making a rifled slug, I have seen a few swaging tools online, but since these slugs sit in the factory shot cup, would do very little if anything to increase accuracy. But at the distance I usually hunt, won't matter.

And I'm with Oli on the drill press for cutting off the factory crimp. I've worked around them a lot, and while doing it by hand with a razor is more time consuming, I have more control over the final outcome, although I will be using a press for the roll crimp.
 
JA , I haven’t seen the method you are using but it’s awesome, good combination between control and production...
I only speak from experience of my own stupidity around saws, grinders, drill presses. I have had a couple learning moments in my life that left the fear in me
 
i'm a little confused,after cutting the bird shot shell and loading it do you have to do the roll crimp or can you still use a regular crimping press like the lee? TY
 
Oli, I haven't seen anyone use a piece of pvc pipe as a guide to trim shells either, but it seems to work. I just couldn't bring myself to pay $20+ to buy a cutter, which will remove far too much of the hull anyway.

old mossy, if you trim the top of the hull like I am, I don't think it would leave enough of the hull to do a standard crimp, which was why I was going to do a roll crimp because it doesn't need as much length of hull over the load to do.

If you wanted to take the extra time to open the crimp to dump the load instead of cutting most of it off, you probably could easily recrimp them with a lee press.

I'm not sure of the difference in the load height when you substitute a slug for the shot, so if there is much space between the top of the slug and the new crimp, you may need to use a thin cardboard or plastic overshot card just to take up the leftover empty space. ????
 
John A. said:
I'm not sure of the difference in the load height when you substitute a slug for the shot, so if there is much space between the top of the slug and the new crimp, you may need to use a thin cardboard or plastic overshot card just to take up the leftover empty space. ????
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That will be something you see after you make the first shell. The roll crimp needs less “forskin” than the fold crimp….the over shot cards just provides a nice level surface for roll crimp to land clear cards provide ammo ID, also over shot cards are used for holding buffer in from escaping a fold crimp too, like on a buffered buck load

IMG_0388.jpg


IMG_0389.jpg


The roll crimp can come to rest on the slug too, but that is with a slug that is not in a wad so the roll crimp won’t interfere or “pin” the wad inside the crimp.

If you need more height for the crimp to work it is better to gain the needed height using a taller wad column or by stacking hard nitro cards under the slug.

But that’s really for a fold crimp, ........the roll crimp is cool because you just keep trimming the hull till the forskin (lol) is the correct length for a good roll crimp….when you find the length you need for that brand you should make another piece of PCV holder at the correct height and you will have a custom jig for that shell brand and you could probably cut them off pretty quick



Here are the only two examples I have lying around. They are factory, one with an overshot card and one just a slug. Don’t know how the factory does the slug…..almost looks like they do the crimp at the same time they insert the slug somehow….you can see on the #1 buck shell how they gained height through the cushion under the shot.

IMG_1484_zps64394ebb.jpg


IMG_1481_zps6a5349a5.jpg


IMG_1482_zpsd3056944.jpg
 
Alright gentlemen. I'm going to post a few pics of my first slugs. This is to get some advice from some of the members who are more experienced to get their input, and hopefully help us all learn from it.

I think the reason that these look like hollowpoints is because i actually had the mold touching the pots spigot. They were the first couple that I made. Later, I lowered the mold and let the lead pour into the mold and they turned out better.

lee1ozslugs001_zpsba0e352d.jpg


I think the the next ones turned out "good enough" although not as pretty as some I have seen

lee1ozslugs002_zps9f133947.jpg


And I think these were due to the mold not being hot enough. Or maybe the pot because at some point, I turned the heat down.

lee1ozslugs003_zps45c1475c.jpg


And now I'm going to wait for oli and nitesite's input as to what I can do to improve the finished product.

It isn't just reserved for oli or nitesites' opinion. Anyone with experience is welcome to weigh in.
 
The bottoms look like this

90281.JPG


As for rifled slugs, here is what I was telling you about on page 1 about swaging

http://www.bulletswage.com/slugs.htm

The slugs I am making are like a sabot because they seat in the shot cup and don't touch the barrel anyway.
 
This is a great thread and a really exciting idea to discuss!!!!!!!!!

As I see it, this is just a result of a too-cool mould and lead not heated up, classic signs like wrinkling and raisin appearance and shiny silver finish:
lee1ozslugs003_zps45c1475c.jpg


This is called "tear-away" and it comes from having the lead really hot, maybe too hot (evidenced by the frosty granular granite-like finish) and the mould being also too hot; then hitting the sprue plate before the hot-as-hell lead and mould have settled down to make a solid cast slug. It isn't just with 1-oz slugs.... the tear-away happens all the time to casters who get things too hot and try to cut the sprue off too early. It's so common that it still happens to me quite often!!!!!!

ALSO, the molten lead that you pour from a ladle or a pot has to overfill the mould and sprue plate. When it's done properly as soon as you pour you can watch the molten lead actually suck down thru the sprue plate into the mould cavity. If there isn;t enough molten lead source sitting on top, the cooling/shrinking/pulling inside will run out of molten lead to fill the top of the mould.

Ideally, whether it is a single cavity or a six-banger you want some sprue cut-offs every time. That means you allowed sufficient molten lead to be sucked down into the mould cavity as things gelled up inside.

lee1ozslugs001_zpsba0e352d.jpg



These slugs will work just fine.

lee1ozslugs002_zps9f133947.jpg


Are they perfect? Well, no. But they aren't all that far from being so. They are close in temp, time, pour etc. but they just aren't right on the mark. Maybe let the mould cool some every time between pours so it isn't too cool but isn't so hot that it's makng frosty bullets, make sure the pot is around the optimum temp, and let the poured lead cool in the aluminum mould for several more seconds so you can get a clean slice from the sprue plate swipe. And pour enough to leave a puddle on top with enough molten lead to suck into the mould cavity whatever it needs.

Of course, I could be completely full of lies and deceit............
 
Right on Nightsite!
I thought it might have something to do with the mix from melting the shot, he said a bunch of crap came out of it...tin ?
Anyway thanks for the insight, what do you think of a wet towel to cool the mold with ? Steam it off every now and then …
 
Thanks for the input nitesite. I appreciate being able to lean on your experience.

And thanks for letting me know more of what I need to pay attention to so I could get a better looking end product. I admit that I noticed that the mold did get really hot toward the end because I was cranking them out one right after another.

Now I know to ease up some between pours. That's the kind of advice a beginner like me needs. :cool:

Oli, as for the stuff that came out of the factory shot, all I can say to describe it, was like sand and orangish/reddish/brownish once the shot melted down real well.

I would've thought the factory shot would've been a lot purer.

Plus, the slugs do have a little "tink" to them when you shake them around in your hand.
 
You are so welcome!

I would try to slow down between pours to keep mould temp in "the range", and pour enough lead so that there is a pretty good amount of cooled lead on top of the sprue plate after the suck-in happens (see my post above if you missed reading about that). And remember that with your lead furnace, as the level drops you can dial it down a number or so so it doesn't get too hot.

I don't use a wet towel. It's a pretty accepted method for cast iron moulds. But aluminum is so quick to heat up and quick to cool that I simply open the mould and lay it on a piece of wood so that draffted air will cool it several degrees between pours when find that I'm really moving too fast.

Most of the time, I'm casting two moulds at the same time so by the time I fill one mould and set it off to cool for a few seconds and grab up the second mould and pour it I can them come back the the first and get a clean sprue swipe/cut and easy drop. And the moulds don't overheat that way.

On my Lee 4-20 I set it at 7 and leave it there for about 30-min before I even begin as long as it's full. If it were half full I would pre-heat at seven and lower it, or add more lead then let it come up to temp at seven. Maybe eight, depending on outside temps.

Man, I'm such a lead geek. How pathetic......
 
Thanks for the advice on how to set the Lee thermostat

At first, I had it turned up all the way until the lead was thoroughly melted. And it was maybe MAYBE 1/4 of the way full, so I probably had it too hot all along.

About half way through, I did turn it down because it had a bluish tint to it and I remembered from freshmen shop class that was an indicator that the temp was too high.

And had you not mentioned it, I probably wouldn't have thought about turning the heat down due to less lead to heat.
 
I actually want to get a thermometer some day but never think about it till I’m casting.

I wish I knew what NS has forgot, I would be happy with just that little bit …..and it would only be a little bit because that mind is like a bear trap baby
 
Itsricmo said:
You are my hero.. **Thread Bookmarked**
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What can I say istricmo? I'm cheap LOL

But in all honesty and sincerity, stuff like this is good to know. There may be a time when you need a few slugs and all you can find are some loaded shot shells.

That's not too far from being reality right now.
 
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