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What's "wrong" with the 464

Discussion in 'Mossberg 464 Lever Action' started by schotzfyred, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. schotzfyred

    schotzfyred .410

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    37
    I've been reading about the 464 "problems" and I can't understand why Winchester could make a great lever action for almost 100 years, [and yeah, they pooped out a while ago,] but why on earth in this day and age of high tech, robots and the like, that gun makers just can't get it right. Ruger, Remlin, and others, all have issues that the customer then has to fix. Trigger kits, sears, springs, new barrels, just to get them to shoot well.
    Robot machines can produce parts to sub 1000ths inches, but it would appear that they don't go together well.
    My 1902 1886 and my 1936 32 spcl 1894 still function flawlessly.

    OK, just venting a bit, and it's raining....I was thinking about a 464, but I wish the reports were better.
    meanstreak and nitesite like this.
  2. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    6,558
    DFM in a JIT environment. The crowning glory of Manufacturing Engineers.

    "Design For Manufacture" means Every step is carefully pre-programmed so idiots can build these guns in production, and the parts all fit without "matching".

    It is great when it works, but if you get one bad box of parts the system crashes.

    "Just In Time" means the next box won't be here until this one runs out.
    There is lots of pressure to use whatever parts come, ship the guns, and fix them on recall etc.

    Welcome to the global economy.
    meanstreak likes this.
  3. schotzfyred

    schotzfyred .410

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    37
    Yep, but where is the QC.....probably cut that department to save money. Many have.

    "Quality is pride of workmanship."
    W. Edwards Deming
  4. schotzfyred

    schotzfyred .410

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    The August edition of Shooting Times had an article on the 464, but unfortunately the writer talked more about the optics that the writer put on it and how to do the install. The writer also included a few paragraphs on the available 30-30 ammo. No range report, no pros/cons and it seemed the writer just repeated Mossbergs' ads.
  5. nitesite

    nitesite Sheepdog Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    5,355
    Henry is where it is at for a new affordable lever.
  6. Djcala

    Djcala .30-06 Supporter

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    1,634
    +1 100%
    meanstreak likes this.
  7. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter

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    1,902
    I'll second that. Got two of them and love 'em. My next want is a case colored 30-30.
  8. COSteve

    COSteve .22LR

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    14
    While I have a Henry H001 carbine in 22lr, the big bore Henrys are too heavy by 1.5 to 2.0lbs and lack a loading gate in the receiver making them non starters in my book. I can understand the weight issue due to materials decisions but to not include a frame loading gate in their design was just plain stupid in my book.

    I talked to Henry during the development of the big boys when they came out to Colorado to talk to some of us in CASS. However, their explanation of why they dropped a receiver loading gate was cryptic at best and stupid at worst. Told them then, and I stand by it now . . . . . no loading gate, no sale.

    As to the OP's question on what's wrong with the 464, as the owner of a previous pre '64 Win 94 carbine and a '60s era Marlin 336, I can honestly say that both of them pail in comparison to my 2012 era walnut stocked 464 both in crispness of action, trigger, and accuracy.
    Blackknight and meanstreak like this.
  9. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    6,558
    Having shot a nice condition Winchester from 1965 I must agree that the Mossberg action is tighter and the trigger is better. Frankly the Mossberg is a good solid gun and my only wish was that it was a little better right out of the box. Mine required lots of break in.

    But then I had exactly the same wish about the Henry .357. It needed a little break in too. The plunger doesn't stay in the tube if it's empty. The little o ring that provides tension is a modern bit that's quite visible on the gun if you look, and spoils the whole antique effect. Plus it does not work well. Like the space shuttle, it should have had a better or second o-ring to make this design work right.

    My real problem with the Mossberg action was it being too tight from excess silver coating, and I spent a lot of time cleaning it up with gun oil and Scotch-Brite. There were a few bits that needed polishing and alignment of the kind that any gunsmith will do.

    The other big problem was that plastic follower. Easy fix to replace it, but just trimming it worked.

    Now I love my Henry .22 and .357 rifles, & the .22 about the slickest thing on Earth, but I can certainly not say that they are flawless. They both came with no lube inside the mag tubes. Those tubes are well-blued on the outside but arrived rusted on the inside. I didn't clean the tubes initially and on the first shooting I pushed some rust down into the action.

    The Mossberg had that as well.

    The .357 is picky about ammunition, and when it works it works but when it doesn't it doesn't. The .30-30 can be the same way. I have made successful 357 hand loads, but so far I have not made a good .30-30 round.

    As far as loading gate vs rod, I like the rod on the Henry because it gives the gun a more antique nature. The 464 is a little too modern, with its silver coating and laminated plywood stock. It's flashy but I think the blue steel models work better.
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  10. COSteve

    COSteve .22LR

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    14
    Yep, I have to agree that the 'blued steel and walnut' look on a Marlin is the best.

    [​IMG]
    meanstreak likes this.
  11. lonestarjeff

    lonestarjeff .410 Supporter

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    74
    I say go ahead, get that 464 & start breaking it in. I recommend the blued & walnut version with a few tweaks....

    [​IMG]
  12. Steamburn

    Steamburn .22LR

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    21
    Got the 464 SPX (the ugly one) a couple of years ago. True, took a while to break it in, but it is extremely practical and reliable. I recommend it highly.
    meanstreak likes this.
  13. Yacol J

    Yacol J .410

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    67
    I also have a 464 SPX. I've never had any problems with it. Even with that weird lever safety, me nor any of my shooting buddies had an issue with that model. It does however shoot better after a few hundred rounds.
    meanstreak likes this.
  14. Daryll

    Daryll .270 WIN Supporter

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    239
    To my mind, a problem with the 464 is that its only available in 30-30....

    I'm looking for a new U/L in 45LC, and as I have 2 Mossberg rifles, i thought I'd try their U/L... until I found out it was only in one calibre.

    Surely they know they'd sell a load more if they also made them in .357 , .44 or .45...??
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  15. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    6,558
    Based on some advice here and there, and mostly on the fact that I got a good deal on the price (!) I bought this Marlin lever action .45-70

    Here it is on the bench with the bolt and lever out for cleaning.
    20180801_151141_resized.jpg
    You can see the little hair pin style ejector lying between the bolt and the receiver. This is the same as a Henry and one of the things that I didn't care for too much as I thought it appeared flimsy. Well it is but it's not heavily loaded so as long as you don't bend it working on the gun it'll be fine.

    Now the Mossberg has a totally different style of extractor which is easier to damage but far easier to replace if you know the correct way.

    Replaced incorrectly, you will wreck the new extractor and cause a sticky action.

    Loading gate versus rod is a moot point for Target shooters generally.

    In real life, the rod is easy to bend, to lose, to mishandle under pressure.

    If you've only got one bullet left in your pocket, that loading gate might become a boon.

    But to be honest, it's also another way for dirt to get in the gun, so it's not all roses.

    Now as for the new Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun, I like it a lot though I would say that the quality is no better than the Mossberg overall, though it differs detail-by-detail.

    The Mossberg is the most difficult of the three to assemble and disassemble and compares to the old Winchester, in having plugs with fasteners hidden under them.

    The Henry and Marlin designs both avoid those faults.
    meanstreak and Elbert Garrett like this.
  16. Yacol J

    Yacol J .410

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    67
    I'll say it again. 45-70 please.
    meanstreak likes this.
  17. Blackknight

    Blackknight .410

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    39
    I saved for a year and a half to buy a $350 Mossberg at a gun show. Henrys are lovely, but I don't know that I'd call them affordable. On the other hand, they work. Hard to put a price on that. Lousy triggers on the current crop of 336W's scared me away from buying a Marlin. After a lot of fussing, I've got my Mossy to work - most of the time.
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  18. Blackknight

    Blackknight .410

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    39
    I'm still new to reloading, but from the get go, I found that my 464 liked to feed polymer-coated cast bullets better than commercial stuff. I'm still messing around with load development. My kids love my 'cat sneeze' loads though. :)
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  19. COSteve

    COSteve .22LR

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    14
    Blackknight, if you want a decent bullet for your 'cat sneeze' loads, I'd suggest that you give X-Treme's 150grn .308 plated bullet a look. With it's flat tip spire point shape, it works great in my 464 and with a light load of Win760 powder I have left over from my 30-06, it gives a decently filled case with an under 2,000fps load. This load feeds like a dream and is accurate enough for me to use it for shooting bowling pins at 200yds with the stock irons. Best of all, smaller women and young kids like it's light recoil.
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  20. Blackknight

    Blackknight .410

    Messages:
    39
    I"ll have to look into that Thanks!
    meanstreak likes this.

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