Which 12 gauge is better for HD - #4 or OO
- Thread starter Wrenches
- Start date
That is really a question for the target to answer 
. But just looking at the ballistics, the 3" 00 will do the most damage, followed by the 2 3/4", however the 3" is more difficult to control in terms of followup shots. The #4 is pretty iffy, and is considered the absolute minimum for HD by most folks.
But to answer more directly, it's not the # of pellets in the shell that matters. It's the # of pellets that penetrate the target that counts.
. But just looking at the ballistics, the 3" 00 will do the most damage, followed by the 2 3/4", however the 3" is more difficult to control in terms of followup shots. The #4 is pretty iffy, and is considered the absolute minimum for HD by most folks.But to answer more directly, it's not the # of pellets in the shell that matters. It's the # of pellets that penetrate the target that counts.
Wrenches
.270 WIN
Thanks Gunny, that clears one question I had. Now another question, which has the tendency to spread less?
I know I need to shoot the targets and determine for myself but when I'm gonna do it I don't know.
By the way, seems to have some problems with this forum, I'm getting errors and parts of the site. Y'all getting the same thing?
I know I need to shoot the targets and determine for myself but when I'm gonna do it I don't know.
By the way, seems to have some problems with this forum, I'm getting errors and parts of the site. Y'all getting the same thing?
jgwills
20g
I agree with the Gunny. A center mass hit of either #4, 00 or something in between should immediately stop any threat assuming they are not wearing any type of armor, hyped up on drugs etc....
Sure, #4 is adequate but its considered the baseline. I kind of compare it to being the .380 of the shotgun world as thats considered by most the baseline of adequate from a handgun. The larger sized pellets are more in line with 9mm, .40 etc......... if you approach it from that viewpoint.
Something is always better than nothing. If all you can comfortably aim and control is a smaller sized shot shell that is better than completely missing with something larger. Shot placement is everything.
YMMV as usual.
Sure, #4 is adequate but its considered the baseline. I kind of compare it to being the .380 of the shotgun world as thats considered by most the baseline of adequate from a handgun. The larger sized pellets are more in line with 9mm, .40 etc......... if you approach it from that viewpoint.
Something is always better than nothing. If all you can comfortably aim and control is a smaller sized shot shell that is better than completely missing with something larger. Shot placement is everything.
YMMV as usual.
Wrenches said:
The pellet cloud diameter will be approx. the same for all, whether it's birdshot or 00. But of course within that cloud the density of pellets will be higher for high pellet count shells than low count. # of pellets per cubic inch. Think about it
See this for general guidance on spread @ listed distances: http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html (chart at bottom of page)Also this: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
The question I always ask when looking at HD ammo is what happens to any pellets that miss and/or penetrate through the target? Being responsible for each and every projectile that comes out of that barrel, I am just as concerned about those as I am the ones that stop in the bad guy.
I don't like to recommend a particular type of ammo to anyone. That's a decision every owner must decide for themselves based on their own skill level, surroundings, neighbor proximity, shooting angle, other household members, etc.
I don't like to recommend a particular type of ammo to anyone. That's a decision every owner must decide for themselves based on their own skill level, surroundings, neighbor proximity, shooting angle, other household members, etc.
jgwills
20g
Couldn't agree more. I'm in a multi family dwelling surrounded by many others. I realized along time ago that downrange for me is less than ideal no matter which way I have to swing the barrel. Anything, #4, 00, whatever is going to be a liability. My best hope is that the sight of a weapon makes them think twice and do an about face running like hell but if I have to fire I hope its as few shots as humanly possible. A one shot affair would be ideal. It's a chance I have to accept living here that collateral damage is almost unavoidable in a very bad situation.
Wrenches
.270 WIN
Quite true. Got us thinking about rule #4 but we do what we can do under the circumstance. Luckily there's just me and my sis in the house and she's gone quite a bit. I do worry about my pets though. I'd be sick if I hurt my furry babies.
My sis doesn't like guns but she got used to me with my guns and I carry my 40 in the house. My 88's under the mattress loaded as well. The only time I ever fired a gun at my home is when I popped the primer in my 88. We had a couple of situations that something smacked against the house and my sis freaked. I checked around and only can assume that a bird caught a crosswind and couldn't steer away.
By the way JG, Have you drilled your family in case of intrusion? Have a designated room that everyone go to so you'll know where they are. Also have a code word that's out of ordinary conversation so that the family hear it and go at once.
My sis doesn't like guns but she got used to me with my guns and I carry my 40 in the house. My 88's under the mattress loaded as well. The only time I ever fired a gun at my home is when I popped the primer in my 88. We had a couple of situations that something smacked against the house and my sis freaked. I checked around and only can assume that a bird caught a crosswind and couldn't steer away.
By the way JG, Have you drilled your family in case of intrusion? Have a designated room that everyone go to so you'll know where they are. Also have a code word that's out of ordinary conversation so that the family hear it and go at once.
Wrenches said:
Steel shot is primarily used for waterfowl where it is illegal to use lead.
Steel is lighter than lead and more expensive so it does not get used for much else that I am aware of.
Yes prolonged use of steel shot can damage chokes/tubes not designed for it. Many modern chokes can handle it with no problem but many still cannot. I believe about all the OFM choke tubes are hardened for use with steel shot.
Wrenches said:
More $$ does not always equal better. Steel or other metals used in ammunition are simply more expensive to manufacture than lead, but in most ways they are inferior to lead. Some states (CA in particular) banned lead in birdshot for environmental reasons, and have been trying to ban lead in all ammunition and fishing tackle. But pot, coke, illegal aliens, etc. are socially acceptable. Go figure. :roll:
One technicality: In order to maintain the same down range energy as lead shot, steel pellets are 2 sizes larger than the lead, which means fewer pellets per shell. Some charts and graphs comparing the two: http://shotshell.drundel.com/steel.htm
jgwills
20g
Wrenches said:
Just me sir. My neighbors are basically on the other side of the wall though as if it were like having family in the same house to be concerned about.
Go words are a good idea for the family.
I'm assuming you are eyeballing that Federal Black Cloud steel shot stuff they seem to have a bunch of there at Academy?
m24shooter
.270 WIN
In terms of a baseline if the recommendation of #4B is the penetration tests that are commonly referenced from decades back the gel used in that test was calibrated wrong, and #1B is pretty much the minimum standard for penetration. Its the smallest sized shot that will reliably meet the 12"FBI standard for rapid incapacitation.
As for what opens up or stays tight, that depends on the shotgun largely. The FedTac loads do well, as do similar loads.
As for what opens up or stays tight, that depends on the shotgun largely. The FedTac loads do well, as do similar loads.
Tony617!
.270 WIN
Buckshot rounds I have ordered by preference:
1) Federal LE132 15 pellet #1 buckshot.
2) Federal LE132 9 pellet 00 buckshot.
3) Federal LE133 8 pellet 00 buckshot.
4) Federal XM127 9 pellet 00 buckshot. This is the only one without flitecontrol.
All pattern very nice with my Maverick 88 and 590A1 shotguns.
1) Federal LE132 15 pellet #1 buckshot.
2) Federal LE132 9 pellet 00 buckshot.
3) Federal LE133 8 pellet 00 buckshot.
4) Federal XM127 9 pellet 00 buckshot. This is the only one without flitecontrol.
All pattern very nice with my Maverick 88 and 590A1 shotguns.
Tony617!, that's great that you not only have different choices but have tested them too. Thanks for sharing.