How far will Putin go? Will he continue with other former satellite nations of the USSR? Will China, sensing weakness move on Taiwan? Will other countries counter militarily with troops?
Question Of The Month (March 2022) (How Far Will It Go)
- Thread starter carbinemike
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If this drags on beyond a couple of weeks suspect the Ukrainian government will consider proposing a cease fire and/or offering an agreement to decrease the loss of both civilian infrastructure and citizens. If not, think both the Ukraine and Russian troops will be bogged down for a longtime unless the Russians begin strategic bombing of critical infrastructure which they haven't to date. The Russians also run the risk of further losing support of the homeland.
However, IMO the introduction of either NATO or thrid party ground or air assets only esculates the conflict and opens the door to expansion beyond Ukraine.
China sits and watches. Biding their time. Suspect their greatest fear is economic sanctions by the rest of the world and the potential closure of foreign owned manufacturing.
However, IMO the introduction of either NATO or thrid party ground or air assets only esculates the conflict and opens the door to expansion beyond Ukraine.
China sits and watches. Biding their time. Suspect their greatest fear is economic sanctions by the rest of the world and the potential closure of foreign owned manufacturing.
OT, but China has huge internal problems we don’t hear about. The flooding there has been massive. Lots of farms were wiped out on some of the richest land.
They’re going to need energy and food. Where would they rather get it? Putin or Biden? Who owes them billions of dollars? Putin or Biden.
There is nothing simple about this for China.
They’re going to need energy and food. Where would they rather get it? Putin or Biden? Who owes them billions of dollars? Putin or Biden.
There is nothing simple about this for China.
cmcdonald
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If Putin remains militarily unopposed by the rest of Europe and NATO, I'd say there is a darn good chance he will try take as much territory as he can.
As our ambassador to the UN said this morning, so far "Putin is writing all the rules for this conflict" and the world is letting him. How far does this go before intervention is necessary? How much suffering and blood is too much?
China, as mentioned by Cadd is an unknown at the moment and they're keeping a low profile in all this. Which doesn't necessarily bode well either.
I agree. Putin has been building to this moment for a long time. I don't see this ending well.
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In my lifetime I don't recall ever sensing we might actually be on the cusp of world war 3. Putin, for whatever reason, seems hell bent on reclaiming lost territories. He obviously had decided to hell with what the west thinks or for that matter, what they will do. China is enough of a question mark that it casts a very large shadow. Then there is Iran and North Korea to contend with.
But, back to the question. I think Putin will go as far as he is allowed.
But, back to the question. I think Putin will go as far as he is allowed.
cmcdonald
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I think a lot of us are feeling that way. China has been pretty low profile in all this so far...until now. Don't know exactly what it means but...
China put out a statement earlier today saying Russia is it's most "strategic partner".
https://globalnews.ca/news/8663491/china-russia-ukraine-invasion-strategic-partner/
I don't think a statement like that should be taken lightly given the gravity of the situation.
I'm also getting the feeling from some of the msm news clips I've seen today that the US gov't is building a case for going to war. Maybe I'm reading more into it than I should but that's what it sounds like to me.
I was just thinking this evening, where is Michelle Obama when we need her ? She would have declared a hashtag war against Russia the second day.
Remember the almost 300 school children kidnapped by Boko Harom ? Or was it Poco Harum ?
#Bringthechildrenback. That worked out well.
Remember the almost 300 school children kidnapped by Boko Harom ? Or was it Poco Harum ?
#Bringthechildrenback. That worked out well.
I have no doubt that there are huge forces in America that want to go to war because they are all invested in ammunition companies and arms companies that aren’t making enough money on the stock market right now.
The reason I bought stock in Olin manufacturing which is the maker of Winchester and many other things that go bang, was I found out that the Clintons were big shareholders in the company., With their kind of money you know that they’re invested in lots different companies that produce arms.
The thing is of course that everything is modular and those companies produce those arms with parts that are made by other companies who make those parts out of metals and materials that are made by other companies so there is a huge supply chain.
I have a managed Ira which means that I am highly diversified, which means that I am invested in all of that stuff. If stock in military goods go up I will make money.
all of us here are invested in guns and ammunition, and we have all seen the value of those things rise dramatically.
These things are not emblematic of the peaceful world in which we would like to live but of a war in which we are persuaded to take up arms against the enemy of our leaders.
Guys like Putin and Lobashenko.
Who are doing exactly the same.
The reason I bought stock in Olin manufacturing which is the maker of Winchester and many other things that go bang, was I found out that the Clintons were big shareholders in the company., With their kind of money you know that they’re invested in lots different companies that produce arms.
The thing is of course that everything is modular and those companies produce those arms with parts that are made by other companies who make those parts out of metals and materials that are made by other companies so there is a huge supply chain.
I have a managed Ira which means that I am highly diversified, which means that I am invested in all of that stuff. If stock in military goods go up I will make money.
all of us here are invested in guns and ammunition, and we have all seen the value of those things rise dramatically.
These things are not emblematic of the peaceful world in which we would like to live but of a war in which we are persuaded to take up arms against the enemy of our leaders.
Guys like Putin and Lobashenko.
Who are doing exactly the same.
She won’t show up until it’s time for everyone to blame this on Trump. It’s happening already
cmcdonald
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Is it ironic or hypocritical or diabolical or all of the above that gun grabbers are heavily invested in arms manufacturing? I think it just shows the absolute absurdity of this society we're living in.
EDIT: AND, and and...people like the Clinton's are revered in pop culture as models for lifestyle, conscientious citizenship and sage advice...
I am seeing more hints in the "news" that the war is all Trump's fault.
That he bullied Ukraine into starting a war.
A war that goes back to about Obama's election, as I recall.
I am afraid that too many people are terminally obtuse.
Their dogged grip on sanctioned and mandated stupidity will be their bain.
That he bullied Ukraine into starting a war.
A war that goes back to about Obama's election, as I recall.
I am afraid that too many people are terminally obtuse.
Their dogged grip on sanctioned and mandated stupidity will be their bain.
And...I saw the Clinton Foundation is getting revved up so they can provide "aid" to Ukraine. Absolutely amazing that anyone would have anything to do with them. I suppose with things the way they are in the WH there will be that think "what if Hillary were to run", and God forbid win. They would want in on the gravy train.
I'm just musing...
I'm just musing...
When the Russians are fighting the Crimeans or the Russians are fighting the Ukrainians it’s really just the Russians fighting the Russians as far as America is concerned.
It’s kind of difficult for us to get seriously involved in what is almost an internal conflict.
But I am 100% sure the Clintons have been involved, since they discovered they could make money off a war, even if America wasn’t in it. The wars in Africa too.
They incite these wars, then with one hand sell arms, and with the other they run a charity collecting money for the survivors of war.
Win-win for warmongers.
It’s kind of difficult for us to get seriously involved in what is almost an internal conflict.
But I am 100% sure the Clintons have been involved, since they discovered they could make money off a war, even if America wasn’t in it. The wars in Africa too.
They incite these wars, then with one hand sell arms, and with the other they run a charity collecting money for the survivors of war.
Win-win for warmongers.
Putin surely knows by now that most of the free world now considers him a war criminal. If he is captured and tried and found guilty, he surely would be sentenced to death. Remember Sadam Huessein.
He is in control of an awesome arsenal. I think their is a distinct possibility he uses them if he feels the walls closing in on him. At this point what does he have to lose ?
He is in control of an awesome arsenal. I think their is a distinct possibility he uses them if he feels the walls closing in on him. At this point what does he have to lose ?
cmcdonald
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The way I see it is people are people wherever they are. At our core we all want freedom. Millions of Eastern Europeans have been struggling to climb out of the shattered hell created by the Soviet era. Putin has not been a friend to that way of thinking and has been trying to regain those lost Soviet territories for his whole reign as supreme leader, emperor, czar, dictator, strongman, autocrat, despot, assassin-in-chief whatever you wanna call him.
If people want to join the west (EU & NATO) we should be welcoming them to the fold. It's not great here these days but it's damn sure better than what they've got now and are continually being threatened with. There's hardly a "sovereign" state near Russia's borders that doesn't want to get under umbrella of the west and with good reason.
For better or worse the US set the course decades and decades ago for rendering global assistance against tyranny. Western countries and groups of nations (EU, NATO) have supported that effort. It is still undeniable that the USA is THE most formidable force on this planet and is the only force on it's own, that has a hope of keeping lunatic despots in check. Without the leadership of the USA globally, this world would become globally unstable. Eventually, it would even undermine the supremacy of western dominance including that of the USA itself, then allowing gargantuan economies like China to set the tone for global order and economic policy...no thank you.
I understand the sentiment Cadd, but this planet NEEDS the USA to stay the course...good cops get spit on just like bad ones. If all the good ones quit, what's left?
CM, I get what you are saying but, it only works if and when the United States has a strong leader. In my opinion we do not have strong leadership at this time.