464 30-30 Loads

[hombre243]

Range report:

I shot the .30-30 Mossberg today 20 rounds through the chronometer with a revised formula. It seemed to work out pretty good & we had speeds varying from about 1990fps to 2000 with one or two wild ones hitting 1974 and a couple up to 2028 which is about what we were looking for.

In 20 rounds I had to jiggle the gun one time just slightly to get a full cycle.
This is 10x better than when it was new. Hell, it ran so well I was all smiles.

HOWEVER, the mainspring link is not precise or rigid enough to maintain position with this low spring pressure level and so getting a consistent strike was not easy I had several FTF on the first strike but always fired on the 2nd or 3rd.

I'll check the firing pin too.

I took the day off special to go shooting with my buddy Bobby who is on vacation, and I also took the Henry Lever Action 22, my Savage 22 target rifle, and my .38 Cowboy six shooter, Plus the new AR, and they all shot beautifully.

As for myself, my accuracy was fair. I want a more powerful scope on the AR & the Mod-1 is going back on the Henry, which is total fun at 25 to 50 yards for me.

I want a serious 9X min target scope for the AR, and possidly a longer barrel upper. Definitely a bipod.

It was the perfect weather and we got a break when cowboys ran their herd through above the 300 yds target.
View attachment 11405 Git a loooong Lil dogies....
View attachment 11406

buddy Bob
View attachment 11404
View attachment 11407
I quit smoking April 2, 2008. Since then I've only had 3 cigars. Our youngest engineer just had his first kid, so we had to have one. When one of your buds gives you a $15 cigar, you really have to make exceptions.

John Glenn was asked one time if he smoked. His reply, "Yes. I smoke 1 cigar a month. But sometimes I forget." And that was when he was young.

 

[hombre243]

I had a scope move forward but never back.

Then again, this is my first high powered rifle.

This was the gun on the bottom,
View attachment 11193

Mossberg 353T .22 semiautomatic. I didnt the have it tight enough.

(There's the .30-30 Mariner on top.)

Did you build the nest for those rifles? Or is it a factory job? I want one. I have the Mossy 464 and a Savage 11 V/T with a bull barrel and bi-pod in 308.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I sewed the whole thing.

Some of it I sewed on my wife's
Singer dress machine but a lot of it I stitched by hand in the garage.

There's probably over 4000 hand stitches.

 

[hombre243]

I sewed the whole thing.

Some of it I sewed on my wife's
Singer dress machine but a lot of it I stitched by hand in the garage.

There's probably over 4000 hand stitches.

It looked custom made. Nice job. I would stitch my hand to the material...I will look for something else.

 

[hombre243]

I have done some calculations using Lee's manual and come up with a load and velocity range for the load and next loading session I want to load a few for testing to see how close the true velocities are compared to the calculations. After doing Lee's 1 grain deduction, 14 times I decided on a 12.5 gr reduction from 34.0 gr of H4895, which makes it 21.5 grains in the case. The bullet is an X-Treme 150 gr plated, flat nose, .308 dia. The velocity should be around 1700 fps.

I have a couple hundred of the loose bullets left and I need some lower velocity rounds for gong shooting with the 3030 Mossy. I will let ya know how it works out. ( I think the factory load data is based on a 24" universal receiver so my velocities will probably be lower, but I can recalculate and boost the charge. 1700 fps is the velocity I want to settle on. Not so fast that it strips the copper plate off the bullet, but fast enough to give me an acceptable trajectory at medium/short ranges. (<=100 yds)

I am going to see if I can find some blem 30 cal copper bullets to try also. Plinkers don't have to be expensive.

 

[CaddmannQ]

We got some 170 grn loads down to about 1660 but they were not very consistent.

We are going to try a different powder and some 150 grn slugs.

 

[hombre243]

We got some 170 grn loads down to about 1660 but they were not very consistent.

We are going to try a different powder and some 150 grn slugs.

I shot some of these 150 grainers in the Marlin and I was not at all impressed. But every rifle is different and some bullets just are hard to match up with an acceptable powder charge. I hope I can find a half-accurate load before I run out of powder and bullets. I want to get some more eventually and use them for coyotes and g-hogs...close up of course. Maybe also for the gong target. But I do not want to spend a fortune in the experimental stage.

Eventually I will pour a few lead bullets too but that is somewhere on down the line.

Oh, on the Hodgdon Powder reloading pages there is a mention of what powders give best results at lower velocities and there are not many of them. Make sure what you load is a proven load. Too little powder can cause over pressure just as easily as too much powder.

 

[CaddmannQ]

Actually I think we were working between the lines just a little bit on that batch.

I shot most of the remainder--about 30 rounds-- and consistency was marginal at best.

But until I get the scope tuned up better I won't be able to tell more.

 

[hombre243]

Actually I think we were working between the lines just a little bit on that batch.

I shot most of the remainder--about 30 rounds-- and consistency was marginal at best.

But until I get the scope tuned up better I won't be able to tell more.

That is what I have to do first thing...make sure the scope is sighted properly. Then I will see the difference between premium loads and the low vel stuff. I am figuring that if I can hit a 6" gong out there at about 50-75 yards I will be satisfied. That is all I got these plated bullets for. But if they prove to be reliable, don't shed the copper and are more accurate than 4" groups at 50-75 yards I may try to work up something more accurate. I also want to make a few hollow points and see how that works.

I have a Forster case trimmer with an accessory 1/8" hollow point drill. I used it on pistol bullets but not rifle bullets yet. These plated lead bullets may like a hole in the nose. Who knows, it may make a shooter out of them. I know the flat nosed 45 Colt loads I made flattened out a bit with the hp. Not a true mushroom but the nose did get a little bigger. I was shooting into a clay bank on the edge of a pond down in TX and I recovered almost all my lead. The ol boy who built the pond knew how to pound clay.

It was hard as highway base material. (I worked for a surveyor for a while and he had me pounding survey stakes out on I80 when they were revamping some road. It took a 16 lb sledge to pound the stakes and I wasn't ready for that. I was already weak from heat stroke I got in Arkansas the month before.)_ blahblahblah... I should go or I will just keep typin.
I have a funeral tomorrow and then home to load 3030s. If there is time I want to shoot a few. But I will wait til we get some steady 60 weather to get serious. 60 is a temp midway between cold and hot and I like to do my testing while the temp is right in the middle.

 

[CaddmannQ]

Im mostly using Straight Lead round nose Cowboy bullets: Federal American Eagles and American Whitetails for my cowboy guns.

The revolver will shoot anything, but the lever guns are picky. They don't care much for the square nose bullets.

The Sierras we use for reloading are kind of in-between a round nose and square nose. They're not my favorite.

 

[hombre243]

Im mostly using Straight Lead round nose Cowboy bullets: Federal American Eagles and American Whitetails for my cowboy guns.

The revolver will shoot anything, but the lever guns are picky. They don't care much for the square nose bullets.

The Sierras we use for reloading are kind of in-between a round nose and square nose. They're not my favorite.

I use em if I can feed em without trouble and so far I have had no problems with any of them. The Xtreme plated 150s are a broad flat nose. I have some Speer or Sierra ?? flat and round and they all seem to be ok so far. Time will expose the ones that the rifle likes and dislikes. I hope I am at the range if/when it starts acting up.

 

[CaddmannQ]

. . . I am figuring that if I can hit a 6" gong out there at about 50-75 yards I will be satisfied . . . .

Today I was able to put 5 out of 5 in a 6 inch circle at 50 yds, with the .22 Savage. That doesn't sound great but I did that 5 times in a row. I did not shoot that well with the AR 15.

I managed to shoot a three inch pattern at 100 yards with the 22 after some practice.

With the wacky scope setup on the .30-30, I did better looking thru the Williams sights. I cannot believe how far off I had it set. I ran out of adjustment on the scope elevation and I was still off 9" at 50 yards.

 

[sullivan]

FWIW, I have read where powder coated lead bullets can be driven over 2000 fps. The raw bullets, made in Oz, are 1/4 of the retail price of American made jacketed pills. But the powder coating and the equipment is extra of course. You could probably google it. The Oz supplier was www.hrbc.com.au but last time I looked their site was down owing to a takeover/buyout(?).
Coatings and Alternatives is something you might want to browse on http://castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[hombre243]

FWIW, I have read where powder coated lead bullets can be driven over 2000 fps. The raw bullets, made in Oz, are 1/4 of the retail price of American made jacketed pills. But the powder coating and the equipment is extra of course. You could probably google it. The Oz supplier was www.hrbc.com.au but last time I looked their site was down owing to a takeover/buyout(?).
Coatings and Alternatives is something you might want to browse on http://castboolits.gunloads.com

I have some .223 55 grain coppers and also jacketed loaded and ready to shoot. I coated these with hBn powder. I also loaded several hundred 9mm bullets coated with the stuff. I have not shot them yet. I want to see if the lead 9mm bullets still spill lead down the bore. If this helps then I will buy more and buy the mold for some lead gas check bullets. I didn't want to spend the money on a mold, sizer and gas checks until I had an idea if it would help with a leading problem.

 

[CaddmannQ]

FWIW, I have read where powder coated lead bullets can be driven over 2000fps

That doesn't seem very fast.

We're shooting .223s that go over 3000 feet per second.

Some guys at the range are shooting these Magnums and wild cats that run 4,000 feet per second!

 

[hombre243]

That doesn't seem very fast.

We're shooting .223s that go over 3000 feet per second.

Some guys at the range are shooting these Magnums and wild cats that run 4,000 feet per second!

Powder coated lead is way different from 223 bullets that go over 3000 fps. Lead is a whole different animal. Most articles I have read about lead bullets say that non gas checked lead bullets will or may start leading at appx 1000 fps. To get 2x that velocity just by powder coating or baking on that other stuff is a pretty good jump. I used some hex Boron Nitride powder on some. Haven't shot any yet. I am waiting for the wind to behave so I can get an accurate assessment of accuracy and a good comparison of powdered and non powdered bullets in my 5.56/.223 MVP. I also have some 9mms that need run downrange.

 

[CaddmannQ]

Ok,I guess I don't get it.
By powder coating a common slug you can make it shoot as fast as a high performance spitzer without more powder?

 

[hombre243]

Ok,I guess I don't get it.
By powder coating a common slug you can make it shoot as fast as a high performance spitzer without more powder?

Never try to duplicate velocities between a premium jacketed bullet, a plated bullet or a lead bullet with or without a gas check. When you powder coat something you may get a small increase in velocity because the powder slicks up the bore a LITTLE. What you should aim for is a little higher velocity, a more stable and accurate bullet by powder coating a bullet and adding a little more smokeless powder to the load. You cannot turn a lead or plated bullet into a super shooter. You can only help it to improve performance. and also help to keep leading to a minimum or less. I am not sure what got you on the track of thinking you are on.

Logically, if one could get jacketed spitzer performance from a lead slug, everyone would be doing it and the bullet companies would be out of business.

My purpose for powder coating with hBn is to cut down on copper fouling in my rifles and lead fouling in my 9mm and 45 acp pistols. I was shooting 9mms at about 1100 fps and 45 acp/45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk at a little over that and I was getting a couple hours exercise trying to get the lead out. I now only have a 45 ACP Hi Point that got leaded up when it was new because I was shooting lead at +p velocities. One thing i proved to myself is that a new bore with burrs and rough rifling will itself cause lead or copper fouling until the bore smooths out. Also, accuracy will improve with any bullet you use as rifling smooths out and gets a seasoned polish inside just from shooting it. Lead and copper fouling are minimized when the bore smooths out because there is a lot less rough surface to scrub the copper or lead off the surface of the bullet.

In the mean time hBn or the other baked on finishes may also help to keep lead and copper fouling down to a minimum. But nothing can keep a rough bore from scrubbing something off the surface of even a slow bullet. The faster the bullet travels, the hotter it gets and the more likely it is to shed something from the base or the surface.

 

[CaddmannQ]

I misread what you wrote completely.

Y ou were saying that if you powder coat lead you can shoot it at twice the velocity without leading.

I thought you we're saying if you powder coat the lead bullet, it would go twice as fast as it did uncoated.

 

[hombre243]

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