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About those Electric Cars…

John A.

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Cold shortens battery power as well.


It's almost as if you're psychic or something. Guy had it fully charged. Was supposed to get 150 miles in its' charge. Barely made a 60 mile round trip. Even had the low range warning 10 miles before getting back home.

And that was just at 37* F. Still nothing compared to what you guys in the UP get around the lakes.

I even laughed at Fords recommendations on how to improve range.

Keep it in your garage.

*Yeah, I LOL'd at that one. I can certainly see how that will help you not run out of power as quickly that way. Just park the darn thing and leave it there when it's cold.

What about all the hundreds of millions who don't have a garage? I guess that doesn't apply to them.

Next option.

Don't use the heater. (in the winter).

Make sure your tires are aired up.

There were others. I couldn't get past those.

LOL

 

Ernst

.30-06
"Philanthropist"
Just think about everyone who either pulls a work trailer or loads something in the back of these "trucks".

Think we need to use the term "work truck" very judiciously. Might be good to carry your suitcase to the airport or your lunch to the office.

Not good for much else and most buyers have not looked at the recurring costs of replacing batteries and the disposal cost of them. Suspect a five year old vehicle needing a full set of replacement batteries will be worth less than its blue book value. Likely to be a bunch of vehicles parked in people's backyard because they are not worth fixing and no one wants them.

But keep listening to the government's hype!

Regards
 
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John A.

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Yeah, there's no one I know that wants one. Literally, not one.

Matter of fact, many are considering buying a new truck, just to have one of the gasoline engines before the switch over and can't get them anymore.
 

Ernst

.30-06
"Philanthropist"
Beyond the power generation required to charge these EVs people need to look at the vehicle itself and how they are made. To reduce vehicle weight thus increasing fuel mileage and load capacity many of the parts are made from light weight materials like various types of plastics which yes are mainly a product of oil.

Additional the transmissions or gear drives in these vehicles use fluids just like conventional drive trains, again mainly a product of oil. And each of these vehicles requires a cooling system to cool the inverters, the batteries and to generate heat for the passengers in winter. Many of these fluids are a biproduct of oil.

So we can all convert to EVs but the reliance on oil is not going away. Moonshadow doesn't do much for solar generation at night and the lack of wind during various weather patterns don't turn wind generators. Some areas of the country still have robust water generation capabilities but that's certainly regionalized.

Two months ago in certain areas of the PNW the power grid was shut down for up to three days for fire liability issues. People with generators used oil, propane and natural gas products to run their generators during these outages and the engines all used oil for lubercation.

The reliance on oil is not going away. But we certainly need to focus on energy independence and balance out power generation requirements across all sources.

Regards
 

cmcdonald

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If a hybrid F150 was in my price range (which they are not at this point) I would be very interested in looking into that.

The prospect of going to an EV is super off-putting to me. I don't think the future of vehicle tech lies with EV's...as stated by others there are far too many issues with battery tech as well as the hypocritical process of getting the lithium ore for the batteries. (entirely not green - worse than strip mining the oil sands in Alberta for a litany of reasons).

Hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle research has come a long way and looks more promising all the time. Though it's not as popular and the R&D not particularly well funded like EV's. There is also environmental opposition to carbon capture tech that can produce hydrogen...why? I can't say. I haven't heard or read any arguments that really nail down an issue with it. Honestly, the opposition to hydrogen production via carbon capture I've heard sounds somewhat biased. I would suggest that opponents have invested in EV and battery tech. Which once again (at least in my mind) exposes an agenda that has nothing to do with helping the environment.
 

John A.

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Even trains run on fuel, which powers generators, which in turn keeps their batteries and electric motors running.

Even that would be a better alternative than a straight EV.

What would be the problem with using a gasoline or diesel or propane or whatever fuel source generator? Of course, that would probably make too much sense and would still not be acceptable to the greenies. They should just get used to walking now. We all know that the grid isn't going to handle the load demand when all those EV's are plugged up. Better lace up the shoes.
 

CaddmannQ

.50 BMG
Planning for an EV world…. Eight bicycles and 22 skateboards.
D72B3651-4FC8-45F2-873E-208B0DDD2CD3.jpeg
But that’s not all.

I’m slowly putting together the parts to build an electric trike for minor local grocery getting. I have the perfect situation because it’s less than 1 mile to the Savemart or the Walmart or the True Value hardware. Pharmacy, liquor store, post office, and emergency medical clinic are all within a mile of my house. And there’s really no traffic between me and them.
 

CaddmannQ

.50 BMG
Just think about everyone who either pulls a work trailer or loads something . . . Likely to be a bunch of vehicles parked in people's backyard because they are not worth fixing and no one wants them.

But keep listening to the government's hype!

Regards
I watch a channel called Rich rebuilds, where he fixes up smashed Teslas and recently he put a V-8 engine in a Tesla just as a lark.

He says it’s not as fast as a Tesla because it’s only 2 Wheel Dr., but he can smoke the tires all the way from 0 to 100 miles an hour.

Anyhow I feel people will find a way to put actual engines in these discarded electric vehicles.

I have a ‘53 dodge flat head engine that will pull a pick up truck just fine. Imagine stuffing that under the hood of a modern electric vehicle. I’ll bet I could make tree huggers pass out from hysteria.
 

Bobster

.30-06
I’ll bet I could make tree huggers pass out from hysteria.
Imagine an Offy with a six-pack sticking out of the hood! :D PS: and lake pipes on the sides... ;) PPS: and go full gasser with a jacked up front end and straight axle! I'm on a roll here! :D

offy.jpeg

I'll watch RR on occasion. He has learned the hard way on Teslas and I give him props for that. I also like the way he'll go to EV car "shows" and preview some of the conversions that people are doing--older pickups and Cadillacs and what not. This is completely opposite from what you proposed above... ;)
 

cmcdonald

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Even trains run on fuel, which powers generators, which in turn keeps their batteries and electric motors running.

Even that would be a better alternative than a straight EV.

What would be the problem with using a gasoline or diesel or propane or whatever fuel source generator? Of course, that would probably make too much sense and would still not be acceptable to the greenies. They should just get used to walking now. We all know that the grid isn't going to handle the load demand when all those EV's are plugged up. Better lace up the shoes.
That's why I really like the idea of a gas or diesel hybrid truck. Would theoretically increase your range dramatically making long trips off-road even easier with a small reserve of extra fuel. Recharging the batteries is done both by running the engine and regenerative braking.

EV's are as dirty or dirtier than ICE vehicles over the manufacturing, lifespan of the vehicle and beyond when you consider the spent batteries and how no one has really come up with a long term solution for that. There are warehouses full of partially depleted lithium battery packs...just waiting to be recycled or disposed or....catch fire??? LOL!!

Unless someone can show me in an unbiased manner, how current EV's are more environmentally sound than an ICE vehicle I'm not playing...LOL.

 

CaddmannQ

.50 BMG
To convince yourself not to buy an electric vehicle, all you have to do is go to any electric vehicle dealer and ask them two questions.

How long will the batteries last before I have to change them?

…and how much will it cost to change them?

No one will be able to tell you those figures, and if they attempt to it will certainly be a deception of some type.
 

cmcdonald

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To convince yourself not to buy an electric vehicle, all you have to do is go to any electric vehicle dealer and ask them two questions.

How long will the batteries last before I have to change them?

…and how much will it cost to change them?

No one will be able to tell you those figures, and if they attempt to it will certainly be a deception of some type.
Last estimate on total battery replacement cost I heard was 7-8 years ago...it was in the $6-8K CAD range then. I wonder if the proliferation of EV's since that time has brought the cost down or if inflation has just eaten up any cost savings due to higher volume? No idea on battery life, but I'd expect there are many factors that would make predicting lifespan difficult.
 

Ernst

.30-06
"Philanthropist"
Here's an example of an estimate for replacing the batteries in a Chevy Volt on 08/23/2022 that I found posted online. I would assume the cost of the batteries included the disposal fee for the old ones which is reportly to be significant. Given the vehicle had 70K miles I suspect the battery replacement cost is more than the vehicle's current worth.

battery.jpg
 

John A.

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Actually, it looks like the battery fee was just a buck fifty, according to the invoice. $33.98 was antifreeze. The rest was for the battery and tax.

I'd put full coverage insurance on it and wish for the best.
 

cmcdonald

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Here's an example of an estimate for replacing the batteries in a Chevy Volt on 08/23/2022 that I found posted online. I would assume the cost of the batteries included the disposal fee for the old ones which is reportly to be significant. Given the vehicle had 70K miles I suspect the battery replacement cost is more than the vehicle's current worth.

View attachment 28467
Holy crap that's insane! Wow, I would never buy an EV or hybrid without some sort of reasonably priced warranty that covered total battery replacement up to at least 5 years or 150,000+ kms.


A quick search for a used Volt at 70K miles (112K kms) would likely make it a 2018 or 2019 model and puts it in the $25 to 35K CAD ($18 to 26K USD). So, definitely the whole cost or more of the vehicle.

That is INSANE.
 
Mac, the dealer estimate in this case was indeed correct, but the car in question was a 2012 Volt, completely out of warranty. Chevy no longer uses that battery technology and the battery pack had to be sourced from a third party vendor. Newer vehicles use a more modern battery type that is lol,” only” about 6-7k to replace. The newer Chevy Bolt is full electric not hybrid with an 8yr/100k mile limited warranty. While I think the technology will evolve for the better, it ain’t for me. And I hardly drive my cars. I see lower income families, unable to afford these things, milking their big, old gas/ diesel guzzlers for a long time to come, partially negating the perceived benefit to pollution control that the electrics might make.
 

cmcdonald

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Mac, the dealer estimate in this case was indeed correct, but the car in question was a 2012 Volt, completely out of warranty. Chevy no longer uses that battery technology and the battery pack had to be sourced from a third party vendor. Newer vehicles use a more modern battery type that is lol,” only” about 6-7k to replace.
Sucks for them. Man, with those kind of costs you'd have to pay me to own one of those things.
 

Ernst

.30-06
"Philanthropist"
Mac, the dealer estimate in this case was indeed correct, but the car in question was a 2012 Volt, completely out of warranty. Chevy no longer uses that battery technology and the battery pack had to be sourced from a third party vendor. Newer vehicles use a more modern battery type that is lol,” only” about 6-7k to replace. The newer Chevy Bolt is full electric not hybrid with an 8yr/100k mile limited warranty. While I think the technology will evolve for the better, it ain’t for me. And I hardly drive my cars. I see lower income families, unable to afford these things, milking their big, old gas/ diesel guzzlers for a long time to come, partially negating the perceived benefit to pollution control that the electrics might make.
Problem is down the road when your 2022 EV needs batteries in 8 or 9 years the battery technology will have changed 3 or 4 times and you'll likely be in the same boat as this 2012 Volt owner.

In the last fifty years gasoline has essentially changed once from leaded to unleaded and diesel sulfer content has been reduced. But combustion engines built in the early 1900's are still running today.

Maybe retro fitting real engines will become the salvation of these EVs!

Regards
 

John A.

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I think it's shameful that the politicians would require such bullshit in the first place. Government isn't the solution to the problem folks. Government IS the problem.
 
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